Featured Toyota Talks Prius Prime versus Chevrolet Volt, Mirai, TNGA, and CH-R

when asked, people often say they want things that they don't really care about. because we're whiners, and need to find something wrong with everything.

 

Simple. It depends upon who you ask.

GM didn't actually deliver a 5th seat, that sitting area is tiny... only enough to fit a small child.

GM didn't respond to the request to increase leg or head room in back either. In fact, the head room actually got a tiny bit smaller.

As for range, people will always want more. Seeing a 100% response of adding range is no surprise. How much it will tradeoff with cost, space, and weight isn't usually included in surveys either.

With respect to "who" should be asked, we can really only look to active buyers for somewhat accurate responses. Do people really follow the technology close enough to make a wise choice? Most are not well informed... and those that are tend to not be representative of ordinary consumers.

Realistically, studying real-world data gives a much better reflection of matching need, not what people think would be a good purchase.

 

i remember nissan sending out a survey about the future leaf battery. 'how much would you be willing to pay per kWh'? or something, and, 'would you be interested in battery leasing'? in both cases, they never mentioned any potential downsides, or asked about trade offs.

 

Simple toyota probably surveyed people that left the prius phv for another phev, and found most bought volts (there are more volts on the road in america than any other plug-in including the leaf). Then they that very few prius owners actually fill that middle seat often. Its the same type of market research gm got on the ev-1 that people wanted 4 seats not 2. If there are regularly 5 people in the car, people will often opt for more passenger room than the prius, like in the ford energi or mid sized hybrid like the camry hybrid, etc.

GM on the other hand found people told dealers that they wanted a 5th seat even if they didn't use it and wanted 50 mile range. GM compromized with a spot really for a child's seat as an adult would not be comfortable. Its all how you ask the question. There are more volts on the road than any other plug in, but people really want the tesla model 3 not the prius prime or the volt. All the surveys say they want room for 5 passengers, and 4 door sedan is prefered. That is true in the US, China, and Japan. I think a hatch might be close in europe though, but no one will make money in europe.

There is a possibility in a mid year refresh. I think it was mpg versus a seat that toyota thought people wanted 1 or 2 mpg more than a seat that isn't often used. I have no idea if they asked the question right. All I know is the prius prime is a much better car than the prius phv, but if you want a usable middle back seat for adults you may need to buy a fusion or sonata or bmw 3 phev, or wait for the clarity phev or tesla model 3. It won't be the volt or the prime.

They wanted more range even if it added to cost. Then again if nissan adds too much to cost without delivering there is the bolt and tesla model 3 coming up.

 

6 of one or half a dozen of the other. Pick your poison and be happy.

 

Not true. The new Volt increased the rear legroom by 0.6 inches so it is now larger than the 2016 Prius which had its rear legroom shrink. That sounds like a small amount but every bit makes a difference. The reputation of the Prius for rear legroom came from the cavernous 2nd generation car between 2003-2009.

The Volt rear headroom shrunk by .2 inches.

2011 Volt rear legroom: 34.1
2016 Volt rear legroom: 34.7
2009 Prius rear legroom: 38.6
2015Prius rear legroom: 36.0
2016 Prius rear legroom: 33.4

2011 Volt rear headroom: 36.0
2016 Volt rear headroom: 35.8
2016 Prius rear headroom: 37.4

 

As a person that has ridden in the middle rear seat of a '79 Camaro, I agree the Volt's won't be comfortable, but it is there in case it is needed, and most asking for it were likely thinking more for kids.

If Toyota is thinking the Prime will appeal more to older Prius owners, whose own children have grown, they seem to have overlooked the possibility of grand kids.

 

I need to make sure the big picture is not obscured by secondary priorities. I am not saying or stating the hybrid Malibu has any defects of any sort. Nor am I saying GM had their priorities out of whack. It is now in the first rate hybrid ranks....of car lines having pure ICE equivalents. My point is the best possible engineering of hybrid mpg takes a clean design start. This is the difference between a Prius and a hybrid Camry. So while the Prius edges out the hybrid Malibu as the highest performing mpg hybrid, this same point is why the Volt edges out the Prius Prime as the highest performing AER ranging PHEV.

 

I stand corrected; however, that info is missing some detail.

Looking at what actually happened, you can see that Toyota increased front legroom. It then begs the question of if that can be used by the person in back, when not needed in front.

We don't have detail about foot room either, other than the vague accounts of Prius offering more. Overall, there is now only a 0.2 difference between Volt & Prius for legroom. Headroom is a different story.

The point is, not all was delivered, so we have to ask what is actually needed.

What tradeoffs will hurt sales?

 

Having sat in both, the Prius is far, far more spacious feeling than the Volt.

The Volt really feels like a 2+2+1 (the +1 being worse than the +2), the Prius is a true 4+1 (the +1 being about as bad as a Volt's +2 I'd say, maybe better).

 

Just to be clear, which generation of Volt and Prius are you comparing?

I'm not saying the Volt's rear seating is generous. It's usable. I do suspect people's assessments of Prius rear seating are sometimes formed by prior generation cars.

 

So true - I never was asked the question - would I rather pay 2k or $3k  more for active liquid thermal management to prevent capacity loss 2 or 3  years sooner than it would otherwise drop .... and at the same time enable higher efficiency in cold temps.

The lame excuse I first heard from corporate Nissan was that the human body does perfectly well, getting air cooled. After pondering that for 30 seconds I retorted, "really? Then what do you think sweat glands do .... blow hot air? "
no response.
.

 

With our recent new car search for the wife, I also tried to sit in the back of the Gen 2 Volt and Gen 4 Prius. At 6'2" it's not possible to sit in the back of the Volt because of the headroom. Seems like >5'10" will start to run into problems.

As far as legroom is concerned, despite official specifications, I also strangely noticed that with my wife sitting similarly comfortably positioned in the drivers seat of either car I had noticably more legroom in the Prius. So it could be some technical specification artifact with the front seat positioning that gave the Volt a better official number. In practical terms the Prius had more leg room.

 

Gen 2 Volt, Gen 4 Prius.

 

If done well, we couldn't tell if the platform was designed to be a hybrid or ICE by looking at the final product. The loss of trunk space in the sedans might be a clue, but the previous generations of Prii lost cargo space for the battery. We just didn't have an ICE version for comparison.

The gen4 and Prius c do place the battery under the rear seat to save the cargo space. The Malibu's Li-ion battery is 42%(number of cells) to 100%(kWh) large than the Prius'. The rear seat simply may not have been an option for the Malibu's pack.

But the Prime is just a 4.

The Prius is a bigger car(small side of EPA mid-size) than the Volt(large side of EPA compact). The fact that the Prius has more room for rear passengers shouldn't be a surprise. For most people, the rear seat is rarely used. When it is, it will be for short trips. A Volt can work for taking 4 co-workers to lunch, where a Prime simply wouldn't be an option.

People that do make regular use of the rear seat are likely doing so because they have kids. There are advantages of a middle rear seat when it comes to kids. Depending on age, the Volt could work for family trips. If not, the likely hood is that the family has a second car.

 

I won't deny that the Volt can in theory take five people. It's only comfortable for two, though, and the fifth person needs to be very small if you take one (a child is a good example), whereas the Prime will be comfortable for four.

And, while it's smaller according to the EPA, it's only 1 cubic foot less passenger space, the loss is almost entirely in cargo space. As far as exterior dimensions, the Volt's only 10 mm shorter wheelbase, while being 130 mm longer, 50 mm wider, although 40 mm lower. It's not a smaller car externally.

 

I haven't spent extended time sitting in the back seat of a gen 2 Volt or gen 4 Prius (almost nobody has spent time in the backseat of the Prime). But based on the declared interior dimensions and comments elsewhere I suspect your statement that the Volt back seats can never be comfortable for anyone is a bit of an exaggeration.

 

The Volt and the Prime will work for many people. Based on watching drivers on the road over the years, including plug-ins, the very large percentage of occupants are just the single driver and almost certainly commuters.

For other scenarios it will not be one-size-fits-all. The Prime is categorically a 4-seater, and will sit 4 full-sized adults comfortably. The Volt technically has a fifth seat, though probably should not advertise it as such, as it will only work for an adult for a very uncomfortable short trip emergency. The other two real seats in the back will not fit full-sized adults.

Regardless, the Prime will not have an all electric range for almost half of commuters if they cannot charge at work, but that still leaves a slim majority.

Those in the market for a PHEV should try them both on for size and find the one that suits their needs best.

 

Like I said......