Prime or Tesla 3

sounds familiar...

 

It's true that GM has not, but could, roll out a cheaper Cruze plugin hybrid with a half-sized Volt pack. It could happen.

They do have the best value among the existing BEVs although it is limited to CA, Oregon, Maryland, and maybe Canada. That is the Spark EV which sells for $25,000 before subsidies and has an 82 mile range.

The similarly priced Smart EV has 68 miles of range and is teeny tiny. The only cheaper BEV is the 62 mile Mitsubishi i-MiEV which almost nobody buys.

The cheapest LEAF is $29,000 for an 84 mile range. The Ford Focus EV is $29,000 for 76 miles. Other BEVs are $31,000 or more.

The Bolt EV will also be the cheapest 200+ mile BEV by far until the Tesla Model 3 comes out for around the same price a year or two later.

 

I expect we will see the next gen Leaf within 6 months of the Bolt hitting the streets.
The Model 3 will follow both of those.

 

I expect we will see the next gen Leaf within the same month of the Bolt hitting the streets.

 

Hyundai All-Electric SUV To Arrive In 2018, With 200 Miles Of Range

Elon Musk: Tesla Plotting Gen 4 Model That Everyone Can Afford

 

A Cruze PHEV could happen, but if I were GM, I'd save the tax credits for the Volt and Bolt.

All the manufacturers seem to hide their plug in availability on the official sites, but several Texas dealers list new Spark EVs.
Price is still unknown, but the Ioniq EV will have 110 miles of range. Electric Hyundai IONIQ - Test Drive Notes Plus Info On Range And Features

While I won't get my hopes up, I would not be surprised if Nissan announces an Al-air battery range extender for the next Leaf.

 

Easy for them to say that, considering by the time the Hyundai Ioniq will hit the streets the Bolt will already by on sale with double the range.

Let's focus on getting the Model 3 out first, or even getting through the reservations list from the Model X.

 

I expect you are correct, however, I felt safer giving myself a buffer

 

i prefer chatting about what companies say they will do, rather than what they have done.

 

But what will the price difference be between the Ioniq EV and Bolt? That is the big what if as with the Prime. The Soul EV starts at $32k. With the expected price decreases from lower battery costs, the Ioniq EV will likely be lower than that.

From that link, "He{Musk} might have been talking about the EV scene in general, not specifically a Tesla strategy." As for Tesla's strategy, it is no secret that they start with high end, high price models and work their way down to a future Corolla of BEVs.

 

I don't know about that. They haven't confirmed anything about the next generation pack yet and the Bolt will be out in 8-9 months.

Probably right.

 

As far as I understand it, both the green and white stickers expire in 2019, and possibly before then if the reauthorization isn't granted by the feds. Since we've already hit the ~85k limit for Green stickers, only EVs can still get (White) stickers.

Request Rejected

 

I am a Gen 3 Prius owner who pre ordered a Model 3.

Basically, I wanted an upgrade in every aspect from my Prius Gen 3 and Toyota did not have an answer for me here in the UK. I didn't like the Prius Gen 4 design but had some hope that NS4 will see light of day but that too wasn't to be. I then thought the C-HR might suit me but it soon became clear Toyota had made very strange design choices on that one. It was also clear that I was finding it increasingly difficult to make sense of the design direction that Toyota was heading to the extent that I had started to question my own judgement and taste.

It was during this time that I stumbled upon the Tesla Model 3 current flow building up to its reveal day. As with Prius Gen 4 reveal, I got up early hours UK time for the Model 3 event and ended up placing an order as soon as they showed the car. Since then, I have been spending most of my forum time on Tesla forums. I have also been getting to know about the company and their direction. One clear difference I see compared to Toyota is how well connected the company is to their customers and enthusiasts. I expected to not like some aspects of the Model 3 but so far I am struggling to think of any. Its as if suddenly I have found a company that speaks the same language as I do. Now there are still question marks as to whether they can deliver and I am not expecting Toyota reliability but I am still going to give them a chance.

With Toyota I am still a proud owner of a Gen 3 Prius and I am grateful to them for giving us this great car but I feel I no longer speak their language and I find it difficult to make sense of where they are heading but most importantly, they seem to have become this huge entity marching to their own band with little or no connection to their customers.

 

I have a 2012 PIP with green stickers. I have a deposit on a T3. I will keep the Prius after arrival of the Tesla regardless of availability of HOV stickers at that time. CHP doesn't seem to enforce speed limits, reckless driving, or car pool lanes anyway.

 

cmth - What a pleasant surprise to see your post. I have missed your comments.

I could not agree with you more about the new Prius.

I have not put a deposit down on the T3, but I'm thinking about it. My brother-in-law just ordered a Tesla S, (the big AWD model). I'm in no rush, so I will wait and see how it works out for him. I had considered the Ioniq, but my interest has faded there. I had a brief interest in the Prime, but that too has faded. I am driving a 2015 TAH and really enjoy it. I traded my 2010 Prius, and now feel that was a poor decision. Had I kept it, I would not be thinking about T3's, Ioniq's and Prime's.

 

Well, Toyota is a huge entity. Many companies seem too lose the connection to its customers that you see in Tesla as they get bigger.

As customers, the biggest influence we have with corporations is to simply go elsewhere when they stop meeting our needs. It is the only thing they notice. Being brand loyal when your needs and wants aren't meant will just lead to you being taken for granted by them.

 

What about Toyota seems that they are disconnected from their customers? Besides the lack of 5 seats in the Prime, all of the other models seem to respond well to the majority of customers. People have always complained about poor handling on the Prius, and in gen IV they have addressed this, and now the commercials highlight the improved rigidity by showing the car in a police chase.

I imagine that customers will now complain of a harsh ride over bumps, and Toyota will have to respond by offering a plush ride, and feature commercials of older, mature people enjoying the comfort of the numb driving experience.

Customers are fickle, and you can't have everything.

 

corporate goals are make money for shareholders as easy as it can, balanced against community responsibility. $$$ often makes the latter less of a corporate vision. hev's & plugins aren't a great $$ stream, so it's understandable corp's don't anxiously dive into them, when suv's & pickups are easier profit.

Thus, Musk is kind of a corporate freak ... selling a billion $$ profit center like PayPal, primarily so he can create pure plugin transportation - supported - via renewable energy, with a goal of polluting the world community less - all the while, being threatened with bankruptcy due to the odds favoring no new auto manufacturer ever coming into existence again, because of heavy safety regulations & multiple crash test requirements etc. Not satisfied with just meeting fed crash standards, Tesla now puts the industry to shame.
The whole thing is likely a thorn in the industry's side, evinced by the status quo manufacturers that claimed, "no one's knocking on our door to build plugins". With over ⅓milliom willing to be on a lengthy waiting list where you have to cough up a grand .... the reality says otherwise. If even ¼ of auto transportation could become pure electric, can you imagine the glut of fossil fuel that would create for better purposes? What a huge surplus that could create driving its cost even lower. (not wanting to get all FHOP, but) It's no wonder the Koch brothers want to Lobby hard to weaken Tesla goals.
.

 

There is not one average "customer" multiplied a million times. There are millions of customers with very specific markets. It is with one particular group that toyota is showing a disconnect. That group is those wanting clean, sustainable vehicles. Toyota force feeds that group FCEV propaganda while making sure EV options are barely worse than nothing.

Toyota is forcing these customers to Teslas, Volts, Leafs, and other non-Toyota EVs.

(I will agree that Toyota will make sure monster SUV customers will not be disappointed...but neither will any other big vehicle maker.)