Toyota's press release: Toyota to Launch Two Plug-in Hybrid Models in China FYI: Corolla Hybrid = Levin Hybrid (same base model manufactured by different joint ventures) I wonder how small the trunk will be ... No details yet...event photo by reporter:
It depends on how big a battery they want to insert. If the Chinese market isn't particularly about folding rear seats, they can mount the battery vertically to minimise trunk intrusion and to maintain a rectangular shaped trunk. Of course, mounting it vertically will increase the centre of mass. Alternatively, they can blend the Gen 4 and IS300h lessons and have the battery underneath the rear seat and extend into the spare tire compartment, keeping the trunk space practically the same.
It's most likely that it will be based on a next-Gen Corolla and the battery capacity will be on a par with Prius Prime to earn some Chinese government incentive (minimum 50km EV range for now). Let's hope the battery tech will evovle fast enogh to build a not-too-big pack before 2018.
Isn't the 4 Gen Prius built on a cross platform! If so they just lay a different body on top of it? All in all its still a Prius!
The plug-in hybrid cars are expensive and only exist to meet political mandates, and without subsidies and artificial incentives would find very few buyers. Our American politicians enjoy sloshing public money into flashy stuff like this, but I'd expect the Chinese to be more practical. And the bulk of Chinese electricity comes from coal, so they can't even make the dubious claim that electricity (and thus electric cars) are "clean" or green. So what gives here? Or are the plug-in hybrids just for export?
The history is the first plug-ins were owner mods to their Gen-2 Prius. There is credible evidence the Chinese are reducing their coal usage: China is on track for the biggest reduction in coal use ever recorded — Quartz https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/chinas_changing_energy_mix_coal_crude_oil_natural_gas_renewables_chartbuilder.png?w=640 There is a gray area between an efficient car and all electric. Plug-ins offer a midway that appeals to some. No doubt, the Chinese will map their own way. BTW, in 2009, I saw a Chinese hybrid at the Detroit Auto Show. Compared to the Gen-3 Prius, it looked like a like a Socialist engineered prototype. Overbuilt in with lots of iron and steel … a Peoples Design Studio award winner. But there it was. Bob Wilson
China has problems with metropolitan air pollution. An electric on coal may not be cleaner than an ICE car, but it does move the pollution out of the city.
May need to fact-check that since I know the Russians were fond of locating power plants in cities so the waste heat could be used for industrial and housing purposes. I don't know about Chinese practices in power-plant placement. Bob Wilson
IMHO, it may be more approperiate here to switch American with Chinese in your second sentence "Our American politicians enjoy sloshing public money into flashy stuff like this, but I'd expect the Chinese to be more practical". In that kind of story, the American version of plug-in hybrids may be expensive w/ acceptable quality & reliability, the Chinese versions are often expensive w/ poor quality & reliability. Those lemon-law-lawsuits-would-love plug-in hybrids in China aim for domestic market with protectionism only, not for export. And there have been reported investigations regarding various kinds of cheating on government incentives. Yeah, that could be one reason. An extreme example is in the capital city Bejing. Local government of Beijing only gives incentives to BEV, not PHEV, not HEV. They claim that it is easier to move the pollution out of the city with pure-electric BEV. But there are alway other explanations. For example, the local Beijing Automobile Corporation Ltd. makes many low-end BEVs qualified for those kinds of incentives. In reality, the Chinese politicians mak decisions based on politics and economics, sometimes environmental considerations become part of political and economical problems, but not take too much actual weights. The energy structure in China varies from province to province (something like different states in the US), some places mainly depend on hydro-power, some mainly depend on coal-power, and many new nuclear plants are under construction. But in general, the environmental technologies in China are far behind developed countries. Generally speaking, more plug-in cars (PHEVs & BEVs) means more low-tech-level coal-burning, but the toxic pollutants in metropolitan area are likely to be less. And altough most of the pollutants in transportation are from diesel trucks, it is much easier for the government to regulate passenger cars in the cities of China. Coal-fired cogeneration plants have been moving out of metropolitan areas for years in China. But the pollutants travel with winds, so the average air pullotion level is still roughly correlated to heating demands and coal fuel usage, higher in northern China and lower in southern China, especially in winter.
perhaps you haven't read the numerous articles that point out the fact that even electricity made from coal (even when there are only moderate pollution standards installed which China does have), is less polluting than running a gas only / nonhybrid car. However, that internet rumor about cars running on coal powered electricity has been passed around a lot, & many folk simply buy into it. Is that where you got your "facts"? We hear on PC are quick to ask for links when the internet rumor mill gets" sloshed" around - as you call it. As far as hybrids only existing as a political agenda, you fail to understand the entire principle of reducing pollution. Hybrids reduce pollution. If you haven't ever been to Shanghai, for example, you can't really appreciate how important hybrids are towards achieving that goal. .
plug-in hybrid cars are expensive and only exist to meet political mandates, and without subsidies and artificial incentives would find very few buyers. - No problem as buyers don't care. They simply buy them as soon as available. Our American politicians enjoy sloshing public money into flashy stuff like this, - The Republican House and Congress. I'm voting against Sen. Sessions, Sen. Shelby, and Congressman Mo Brooks in November. I'll also vote against President Obama even if I have to write in his name to vote against him. You should try the same. I'd expect the Chinese to be more practical. - Good plan, support the Communist! And the bulk of Chinese electricity comes from coal, so they can't even make the dubious claim that electricity (and thus electric cars) are "clean" or green. So what gives here? - Well the Chinese Communists are reducing their coal consumption. Or are the plug-in hybrids just for export? - Great, where do I buy one? I need an address and phone number. BTW, do you know where those landfills full of Prius traction batteries are located? I still have my shovel but I am not having any luck finding them. Bob Wilson
Okay, I didn't say hybrids only exist as a political agenda; I said plug-in hybrids only exist as a political agenda. I bought a Prius C (and paid a small premium for it) because I love a thrifty, reliable car. And since it burns less fuel per mile, all other things being equal, it will pollute less and emit less CO2. But back to plug-in hybrids...Okay, the price premium of the plug-in Prius versus the ordinary Prius was, what?, $7,000 or so? That number could be wrong; correct me if you've got it. And for that you got, what?, something like 12 miles of all-electric cruising. That makes the plug-in a stupid car, and only someone with money to burn, or a government with money to burn, can afford to buy a vehicle that costs so much more and delivers so little utility. And I don't have to mention the price of a Tesla, or even a Leaf, which only looks cheap compared to a Tesla. That's why I point out the obvious: That at this time, electric vehicles are overpriced toys for rich people, and are subsidized by normal people who just want a cheap, basic car. So the real strength of plug-in cars as pollution fighters is that they're unaffordable, and the car you can't afford doesn't pollute at all. Maybe at some point in the future they'll actually be able to produce plug-in cars at a cost that people can afford, and then these cars will make sense. Right now, the electrics are just a boondoggle and a payoff to political cronies. Neat toys, and I wouldn't mind owning a Tesla if I had nothing better to do with my money. But senseless for other than specialized uses.
IMHO, Shanghai is not a good example for adopting hybrids to reducing pollution. Till the end of 2015, the total amount of passenger car ownership in Shanghai is about 2.5 million w/ local plate & 1.2 million w/o local plate (released official estimation). FYI: The local plate serves as a "super HOV" in Shanghai, you have to win a lottery (about 1 in 20 every month) and pay about $13k for a "regular" car (gas only non-hybirds & non-plug-in hybirds), or you can get a free one for a "new energy" car (BEV & PHEV). And you can get extra rebates with made in China "new energy" car (about $10k ~ $15k depending on models). Till the end of 2015, the total amount of "new energy" cars in Shanghai is about 55k, since the "new energy" program begin in 2013 (released official number). That is about 1% in the whole passenger car fleet and 10% in recent new car sales over there. Is it a job well done and the policy looks similar to California? Please take a look at the details: 1) You can't receive the huge amount of rebates with imported ones (as I mentioned above, expensive w/ acceptable quality & reliability V.S. less expensive w/ poor quality & reliability after rebates). The imported ones have been taxed with customs first, why been "taxed" with environment technology again? 2) You can't receive any incentive with a non-plug-in HEV. Maybe non-plug-in HEV is not flash shiny in somewhere like California nowadays, but it is defenitely much more enviornment friendly than a gas only non-hybirds, especially for metropolitan like Shanghai suffering servere traffic congestion. A more efficient way may be adding some incentives to the non-plug-in HEV ($1~2k per car is good enough). Roughly speaking, as a policy maker, if you are willing to aid a car with 99% pollution reduction with $10k, why not aid a car with 50% pollution reduction with $2k in the same time? OH ... it will be political suicide for the Chinese politicians since most of the incentives for non-plug-in HEV will go to Japanese car makers. IMHO, plug-in cars do not only exist as a political agenda. The reality is complex. They do have economical and environmental benefits under certain circumstances, altough not fit everyone everywhere. I myself do not obeject to the incentives for plug-in cars, but do obeject to incentives for plug-in cars only in China. And the environmental problems with toxic pollutants are more important than CO2 for China (and other developing countries). Those two kinds of emission are not always bound to each other.
