Prime or Tesla 3

Thanks for the clarification happy to see at least they are better than reguar car for environment even in US coal now we just need higher gas price

 

The "coal-powered Tesla" trope will be pitched by BEV haters years after it's obsolete (it already is). Between scheduled retirement and litigation, over 30% of US coal generation capacity has been retired since 2010, and that will accelerate as plants built in the baby boom reach their end of life.

Similarly, a friend (who's a diesel enthusiast) told me at Easter that there's a giant landfill in Kansas stuffed with all the non-recyclable Prius batteries that need to be replaced at 80,000 miles, 100,000 if you're really lucky.

Both memes are designed to justify sub-optimal vehicle choices without guilt, i.e. "Why bother"? This foolishness takes on a life of its own.

 

air is pretty nice around these parts.
we don't know about hov yet, it is not a given.
if you want to drive 22 miles or less, yes. then you get 50 mpg or better.
if you think 97% of the drivers are going to switch to bev's, and it's pointless to require higher mpg's, i disagree.
but i do agree, hov in cali is probably 75% of plug in reasoning, which is very sad for our country, and world.

 

understood. i would just like to see more divers broaden their horizons. but as long as they don't believe mmcc is real or that oil from the middle east is a geo political nightmare, we'll be stuck in the same place we've been for the last 40 years.

 

Mary Nichols, the Head of CARB, is a Mirai owner and deeply in bed with Toyota. If green stickers are re-instated this summer, I'm confident the Prime will qualify.

 

if stickers are not reinstituted, you can pretty much write off alternative energy vehicles for the near future.

 

well overall in USA about 47% of Plug_ins have been sold in CA so far. So 75% is too high to say CA HOV, except for PiP1 70-75% in CA might be true. If you look at Plug_Ins sold in CA, the number of HOV stickers is relatively close to 80+% that number (ie; most are getting the HOV stickers).

I think white HOV stickers outnumber green HOV stickers by a fair margin now that green stickers have been slowed by the quotas. So why would it be the green stickers clogging up the HOV lanes? Do you find the white stickers do not actually use the lanes as much?

 

thank you for correcting my wag.

 

Yes but only PHEV (Prime, Volt, etc) sales (green HOV stickers) are at immediate risk...CA still plans to continue BEV free HOV white sticker access for some years.

My guess is CA green HOV will be extended, otherwise we would not have Prime marketed at all, and I think it also accounts for good 1Q2016 PHEV sales. The fix is probably already baked in.

 

really? why do you think?

 

...betcha any money lots more white stickers 10000 more or so than green.
But I am all ears if you think the green stickers are on the HOV roads more...that I do not know.

Green stickers were 80000 I think. So 160000 would be green+white. Guess what we don't know how many still on the road ...some of the leases were 2yrs.

EDIT: So as of December 2015, there were 85,000 green HOV (PHEV) stickers issued and about 92,500 white HOV (BEV) stickers. Since December only white HOV (BEV) stickers were issued, so must be a lot more white stickers as of today.

California's 85,000 green carpool stickers are all gone - San Jose Mercury News

 

Roof!
2019 is not much time though that argues for leasing Prime and getting a BEV next in CA. I was thinking they'd do better than 2019 for PHEV.

 

For those of us who don't have HOV incentives for green vehicles - IRRELEVANT

The strong interest in Prius here (Minnesota) without any type of state help shows there are other purchase draws.

No one drives an electric powered vehicle to save money. The smooth, quiet, powerful propulsion system comes at a premium currently.

As for clean the environment, that's a highly subjective topic. If you only drive a few miles per day, what's the point of purchasing a vehicle with a massive battery-pack?

You will still get outstanding MPG, even when driving further. Those miles will be cleaner too. That's what Prius has always delivered. Having a plug simply improves the results.

History of gen-1 offerings don't back that claim. Ordinary consumers are fickle, don't deal with absolutes, and are unwilling to take a large next step. Toyota understandings that and is striving to strike that delicate balance.

 

It'll cost more - but aren't they supposed to re-badge the genII Volt chassis as a caddy as well? That'd certainly have a bunch more options if that's what folks want.
.

 

Cadillac CT6 will add a PSD and 2 clutches... so higher cost and complexity... to deliver 449 horsepower.

Seems like quite a big step in the wrong direction, away from the reach of most consumers.