Prime destined to be doa?

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by Prius Five Guy, Apr 1, 2016.

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  1. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    To err is human. To not learn from our mistakes is also human. ;)
     
    #201 David Beale, Apr 21, 2016
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    there comes an age when bad things happen, and i'm closing in on it.:eek:
     
    #202 bisco, Apr 21, 2016
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  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Toyota reliability?

    In Japan, it's 100kg heavier than the old PiP. No U.S. numbers yet.

    トヨタ 新型プリウスPHV | トヨタ自動車WEBサイト

    1,510kg in Japanese spec (100kg heavier)
     
    #203 Tideland Prius, Apr 21, 2016
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  4. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    LEXUS NUMBER ONE FOR RELIABILITY IN 2016 AUTO EXPRESS DRIVER POWER SURVEY
     
    #204 Sergiospl, Apr 21, 2016
  5. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    iduno .... the warranties are definitely different. 100,000miles on some things? & Lifetime warranty on others things ? I'm thinking the Prius warranty needs to step up to the plate.

    .
     
    #205 hill, Apr 21, 2016
  6. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I'm guessing they're keeping the warranty low to keep the prices low. Toyota should be able to offer 4 years/80,000km without much incremental repair cost (they are reliable, right?) but I suspect there might be some accounting details that require $X to be set aside or to be included in vehicle pricing if the warranties were to be extended.

    So in theory, it shouldn't cost them too much more since their cars are generally reliable BUT perhaps there's a dollar amount associated with that increase in warranty length.
     
    #206 Tideland Prius, Apr 21, 2016
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  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it's cause no one would buy a hyundai until they increased the warranty, paid people to take a test drive, and agree to buy the car back if they lost their job. apparently, the cars themselves didn't impress anyone.
     
    #207 bisco, Apr 21, 2016
  8. mozdzen

    mozdzen Active Member

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    Well, the PiP Prime is certainly not going to be DOA, but I'm not going to buy one.
    They will have plenty of other customers. I think they will easily sell 2,000 units a month if they don't price it sky high.
     
    #208 mozdzen, Apr 21, 2016
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  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Got a curb weight for the Ioniq then?:p

    The reliability reputation is a factor, which is probably why Hyundai isn't claiming the Ioniq is going to beat global Prius sales in the first year. They will likely be able to underprice Toyota though.

    2000 a month might have been possible with the PiP, if they had rolled it out nationwide as initially planned. I don't have high hopes of the Prime not being priced higher than the competition.
     
    #209 Trollbait, Apr 22, 2016
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  10. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    PiP1 had the early advantage of CA HOV green stickers and it only had Volt to compete with, and Volt at first did not even qualify for green HOV. Prime has much more competition (FORD, Volt), and was apparently forced by CARB rules and Plug-In fans to sacrifice seat and cargo space for bigger Li Batts. So Prime is more of a "me too" with Fusion and Volt.

    I think all PHEV sales would be stinky without CA free HOV, and for that reason, and CA will simply not allow that to happen.
     
    #210 wjtracy, Apr 22, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2016
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  11. Felt

    Felt Senior Member

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    When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought, 'no way. is the Prime DOA'
    Pictures of the Prime have brought my interest back to Toyota. I am completely tuned-off by the standard lift-back, to the extent that I have been reading about the Ioniq. Now I am in a wait and see mode. Both are due in the fall, and it will be interesting to compare. There will be a lot of features to compare, but price will be a biggie.
     
    #211 Felt, Apr 22, 2016
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  12. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    No, Hyundai did not release that information.

    I agree, it'll undercut Toyota's price. But looking at the available features, the top end might end up being the same (with the consumer deciding what kind of features they want for that price)

    Ioniq PHV:

    • Standard 4.2" TFT LCD instrument cluster display with analogue dials. Optional 7" TFT instrument gauges (no analogue dials)
    • 7" (no nav) or 8" (nav) centre MFD
    • AndroidAuto (no CarPlay yet but it'll be a free software update I believe)
    • Standard halogen projector headlights. Available LED headlights (curiously, the regular Hybrid offers HIDs w/ AFL as the optional headlight)
    • Available power moonroof
    • Available driver seat memory system
    • Dual-zone automatic climate control w/ driver-only setting
    • Available rear A/C vents
    • Standard leather-wrapped steering wheel
    • Power windows with driver auto up/down (optional front passenger auto up/down)
    • Standard heated front seats (no mention of heated steering wheel or heated rear seats in the U.S. press documents)
    • Illuminated exterior door handles
    • Available LED interior illumination
    • Extendable sunvisors
    • 5 seatbelts
    • Larger trunk (if the numbers are to be believed. ~4 cu. ft.)
    • Eco-plastics used (recycled plastic with powdered wood & volcanic stone for interior door covers. Raw materials extract from sugar cane are partially applied to the headliner and carpet)
    • Standard 16" alloy wheels
    Prime:
    • Standard full LED headlights, parking lights, indicators, brakelights and taillights
    • 7" MFD, optional 11.6" HD MFD
    • DRCC works down to 0mph (Ioniq's Smart Cruise works to 6mph/10kph)
    • Power windows with auto up/down for all windows
    • Nicer plastics and soft-touch material
    • Available Heads-Up Display w/ navigation, speedo and HSI displays
    • Siri Eyes Free
    • Available Intelligent Parking Assist
    • Available Intelligent Clearance Sonar
    • Available temperature regulating SofTex-wrapped steering wheel
    • Acoustic front door window glass (both Prime and Ioniq have acoustic windshields)
    • S-Flow automatic climate control
    • Standard dual-stage heated front seats
    • World's first gas-injected heat pump system for the HVAC (heater)
     
    #212 Tideland Prius, Apr 22, 2016
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  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I find the Prime exterior styling nicer than the gen4, and the unveiling and specs got me more excited than the gen4's. The 20 mile EV range was lower than I what I think it needed with today's competion, but I figured Toyota wanted to impact the interior space as little as possible. Then I saw that it only had two seats in the rear, and that the cargo floor had been raised. On top of that, there is the talk of the Prime being the premium level Prius, which will likely be reflected in the price. So now I have doubts about the Prime's chances.
    If you want to reach the masses with a plug in, it has to have a reasonable starting price. Loading the car up with features might lessen the impact of the added cost for the EV components, but if the low trim price is too high, potential buyers won't even visit the dealer to look at the car.

    While the top end Ioniq might end up as much as the top end Prime, a lower equipped, lower priced base trim will get more people to look at the car, which can lead to more sales of the pricey high end trim. Then the potential of longer EV range can go a long way towards convincing people that the smaller screens and such are plenty for them.
     
    #213 Trollbait, Apr 22, 2016
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  14. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Yup, it'll definitely help. I think it'll do better than the Sonata Hybrid which tried to compete with the Prius and Camry Hybrid. The only thing is that the Ioniq's interior is a bit cheap (think Gen 2 Prius type of hard plastics). On paper, it has the edge over the Prime because of the standard and available features. It does have a more usable cargo space (it's more cubic than the Prime. The Prime is flatter in height, even if the square area of the floor is larger) but the interior is definitely a compact car.
     
    #214 Tideland Prius, Apr 22, 2016
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  15. Felt

    Felt Senior Member

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    Tideland Prius and Trollbait - Both excellent post. Thank you for the comparisons and comments.

    A couple of disconnected thoughts:
    - Basically, I like the pictures of the Ioniq. Today I drove through a Toyota dealers lot. I honestly do not like the looks of any Toyota produce (except as noted below) . Some will say they are "sporty," others "youthful" but to me they are not "attractive."
    - I am encouraged that the Prime may be limited to 4 levels of enhancement. The standard lift-back's selections are ridiculous.
    - I especially like mention of the Prime's heater system; power windows; head's-up display
    - I will be interested in a more basic, 2nd car to complement my road car (2015 TAH - beautiful car)
    - Not interested in a moon roof; parking assist; siri lights,but would appreciate upgraded interior materials.
    - I like power, memory seats; I'll need to study LED lights (not sure pros and cons)

    I could go on, but as I said, it will eventually come down to cost, road noise and drivability. (I really like CVT) (I really dislike a lot of road noise) Convenience is not an issue (the Toyota and Hyundai dealers are next to each other). 4 passenger seating is a non-issue
     
    #215 Felt, Apr 22, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2016
  16. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Don't get the base Prime, then. (Unless Toyota specs out the base Prime like a Liftback Three. The Liftback Two and Two Eco have hard plastics while Three and above have soft-touch upper door trim).

    I can't attest to the headlights because the stage and the room was brightly lit at the NYIAS. If they are indeed the exact same set as the ones on the Mirai, perhaps @OldNSlow can tell you how good or poor they are on his Mirai.
     
    #216 Tideland Prius, Apr 23, 2016
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i read prime gets 3 levels.
     
    #217 bisco, Apr 23, 2016
  18. Felt

    Felt Senior Member

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    Thanks Tideland Prius - I'm a long way away from making any decisions. At this point, all I am saying is that the pictures and what I have read about the Prime have recaptured my interest in the Prius, whereas prior to the Prime, I had lost all interest.

    bisco - 3 would be better than 4. Actually I read where someone else had said 4, and I just repeated it without checking it out.
     
    #218 Felt, Apr 23, 2016
  19. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    #219 Tideland Prius, Apr 23, 2016
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  20. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Reads like two definitely and maybe a third level later. And the third might be more battery or more seats?


    iPhone ?
     
    #220 drash, Apr 23, 2016
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