Toyota read this - what's my prime thought?

cost is everything to toyota, but price is everything to me. sometimes the price is based on cost, and sometimes it's based on market conditions, which was plainly evident with pip 1.

 

As I said,compared to the regular gen. 4 Prius .
We only get the tire repair kit in germany,so indeed roughly 6.7 Inches are sacrificed picking the Prime .
According to Toyota Japan the cargo floor is raised 77 mm (~3 inches) in comparison with 1. gen. Plug -in .

 

Swappable batteries have been tried for BEVs. There was a car leasing or share company in Israel that tried it, and is now out of business. Tesla has or had a swap station between LA and San Fransisco. The vast majority of Tesla owners choose to use the free at the supercharger and wait versus paying $80 and getting back on the road in 90 seconds.

There are a couple of hurdles to this working out. The battery is one of the pricier parts of the plug in, and you need to built more than you do cars so that there are enough swappables on hand and charged at the station. If there isn't a standardized battery format for a station that serves all, the cost will be higher for an individual car company to make their own batteries for their own stations.

The other issue is that batteries are propane tanks. As long as it passes the safety inspection, a used propane tank for the grill will hold the same amount of fuel as a new one. Batteries degrade over time, and some degradation is acceptable for a battery that is still good. Which means the battery put in could have lower capacity than the one just swapped out. Using a fee structure to reflect lower capacity packs adds some cost. The station needs equipment to test a pack beyond it being good or bad to set that price.

Tesla's solution was to give you a new pack at the swap station. When you pasted back through, you got your original pack back. If you did not pass back through, tesla would charge you for the new pack minus the prorated value of your old one.

The plug in kits ran in the $5000 to $10k range. if the PiP had just been a factory 'kit' in the $3000 neighborhood, it might have been more attractive on value. Loading it up with extra features just increased the price, and made the Volt with higher tax credit, look like a better value.

When EV mode. Sounds like the default mode on start up is EV Auto, which apparently will use more ICE blending for better overall efficiency like the PiP.
The true EV with longer range could attract more buyers, but price going to be important.

If the Prime's ends up high, the market condition will be a 'nicer' car compared to the Prius Plain.

 

i think i read prime starts in ev mode, and you can select ev auto when you want to. the article stated that this was an improvement over pip 1, which is a mistake, since pip 1 also starts in ev mode.

 

i understand what you're saying, but i think ev auto maybe a little different than pip 1 ev. engine operating parameters. pip 1 is almost full ev, and i suspect since pip 2 has full ev, ev auto may use blending.

 

The first PiP used blending, and its thresholds for when that blending occurred were lower than the competition's. With the larger pack, and the ability to propel the car with both M/Gs, the Prime's thresholds for blending while EV auto can be higher than the PiP's. With EV Drive available, it is possible that the thresholds aren't as high as possible in the interest of overall efficiency.

 

I love the Prime, but the 22 Mile EV range is still a bummer no matter how you look at it... I'm waiting to see what kind of range and MPGe you can get with EV Auto enabled full-time before passing judgment; from an energy efficiency standpoint, if it's better to use the Prius's highly efficient gas engine on heavy acceleration, it makes sense to me to do so...especially if it can extend it's "blended" EV miles up to 30+ to cover my round-trip work commute.

 

Given the popularity of Prius Chat, I'd be very surprised if it was ignored by Toyota.
The Prius Teams connection is proof of at least some involvement by Toyota.

I don't necessarily think Mr. Toyoda or Jim Lentz, spend countless hours posing as Prius Owners trying to figure out what "B" is, but if I was placing a bet? I'd bet more on the side that Toyota does pay some attention to feedback that is created at this site.

If not? They are wasting a resource.

 

Don't know what your comment has to do with mine....But OK.

In my opinion, like with any product, vehicles included, people have the freedom to come to their own conclusions about whether they like it.
In my personal opinion, I like the Prius Prime.
Yes, it doesn't seat 5 people.
Yes, it's STILL a Hybrid, 1st and foremost. The 1st Gen PiP was still a Prius. And the "Prius" Prime is STILL a Prius...If you were expecting a full electric or an entirely different product? I don't think you should blame Toyota.

I would suggest anyone trying to figure out The Prius Prime, simply go to Toyota's own website, where their presentation of The Prius Prime is very interesting.

Also my opinion, There's a lot of truth in Toyota's advertising of The Prius Prime. It's a Plug In Prius, with beefed up electric motor and battery capability. It also has more aggressive styling ques.

I think the advantages it creates in being able to be plugged in and go further and faster in EV mode, IS significant. I'd like one.

If your vehicles demands and/or simple preference call for seating for 5? Then feel free to be a NOT ready for prime time player.

If the uneven load floor, and what I would speculate is really only a slight diminished cargo capacity is also a deal killer? Well..I guess we should be happy Toyota offers so many other products.

Given that Toyota is a LARGE automaker, building for the greatest demand of the populace, I'm actually impressed with what The Prius Prime IS as opposed to being disappointed in what it's not.
But I think for many, especially when it comes to Prius, we want a faster more extreme evolution than is usually going to happen.

I don't think there was any way Toyota could roll out a product they were calling The Prius Prime, without disappointing some people.

 

My brother-in-law ordered a Tesla S P90D this week. Yesterday he received confirmation of the purchase.
Today he received notification that new upgrades are forthcoming, and since his had not been manufactured yet, he would receive the upgrades.

Isn't it refreshing that at least one manufacturer will make upgrades mid-production, and not wait for next years model, or the 5 year (or whatever) major remodel.

We've had this discussion elsewhere, but wouldn't it have been nice if Toyota had included some of the technological upgrades in the G3, and not waited for the G4?

Ya, Ya I know, that's how it is done. But apparently not with Tesla.

 

no question. there's a lot lacking in the automotive industry that tesla has fulfilled. that's smart marketing on their part, to make up for other shortcomings.

 

Tesla should not have to recertify with the EPA at every little change as they have no emissions to certify. They should still have NHTSA issues for lights, bumpers, crash worthiness, etc. And without model years to indicate the changes, they will need to track every VIN.

 

I like the Prime but probably won't be buying it right away. Not that I can't afford it and not because of the 4 seats or lack of a rear wiper, but my PiP has a couple of major advantages over it. I believe the cargo space is bigger but the biggest advantage is - my PiP is paid for. I kind of like not having a car payment.

 

11.6 to be exact

 

Hey nobody on the survey joining me on the wireless charging thing..I must be the single vote...

 

i just don't see it because of the charging losses. plugging in is so easy, you have to experience it.

i must say, i'm surprised that the most votes are for not enough ev range. it will be interesting to see how the general public feels.

 

...you mean I gotta walk over to the other side of the car?
Well I guess that's where my plug hangs down from.
Actually I like the thought of off-grid small solar to charge the batt,