1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Burning smell of electronics, won't start

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by 2020Oliner, Apr 11, 2016.

  1. 2020Oliner

    2020Oliner Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    8
    4
    0
    Location:
    Waikoloa, HI
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Last week I was driving our 2001 Prius, and I noticed a mild burning smell. I was in town, it was very faint, and I wasn't even sure it was coming from my car, so I headed for home and figured I'd check again there. Everything seemed fine until, going 60mph on the level highway, the engine died and the dash lights lit up. I was about to turn off the highway and begin descending toward my town, so I made the turn and coasted for the remaining 7 downhill miles until I got home (to avoid a giant towing bill) .

    When I got home, I popped the hood and smelled the scent of burning electronics. The smell was strongest over to the right of the hybrid system, but it didn't seem to be coming from the hybrid system. The smell was definitely not as strong to the left side of the hybrid system. I checked the fuse box (fusible link box no. 1) and didn't find any fuses blown.

    My dad (an electrical engineer) came over and checked it out. At first he thought a wire may have shorted under the hood, but we looked and couldn't find any melted insulation, char marks, or the like. I jacked the car up and looked from beneath; again, nothing. The smell did linger for a while though, and was quite noticeable even the next day after having the hood shut overnight.

    Turning the key to "ACC," this is what happens:
    1. Everything powers up as usual, but the hybrid battery (around 50% as I was driving before the failure) does not register a charge on the display (i.e. it appears empty).
    2. The gas gauge registers empty (one flashing bar) for 5-10 seconds, then shows the correct reading (just under 50%) for a few seconds, and until it finally just starts flashing full bars (i.e. full bars > no bars > full bars > no bars and so on, alternating every 500ms or so). (Now that several days have passed since the incident [and I've disconnected the aux battery a few times], it skips the correct reading and goes straight from empty to flashing full.)
    3. There are no warning lights on other than the check engine light, which has been on for the majority of the car's life.

    When you turn the key to "ON," not much changes. The windows work, as do the headlights and dash backlight. When I start the car in maintenance mode, all the systems it checks show "OK." The auxiliary battery voltage and switch monitors work as well. Up on the top panel though, there are no boxes indicating which gear you are in.

    When you turn to "IGN," the main screen and clock shut off for ~500ms, then come back. (I think this is normal but can't remember for sure.) The engine makes no noticeable attempt to start though, and the "READY" light stays off.

    I've tried plugging in a DTC reader. The devices gets power, but it can't get a signal from the computer. I've checked the reader on another car, and it definitely works.

    I checked the plugs mounted on the right side of the hybrid system for shorted wires (diode check between pins), but I didn't find anything. All of the fuses in all the fuse boxes are intact as well.

    It seems to me that a computer is messed up somewhere. My dad and I can't locate any ECUs under the hood other than the hybrid system and perhaps a black box on the back of the ABS pump. We pulled out the body ECU (behind the fuse box to the lower left of the steering wheel), but that looked good. We also disconnected the HV battery (following the Toyota guide) and opened up the hybrid ECU (assuming that's the big silver box under the hood). It looked brand new and didn't smell at all. The resistors checked out as well.

    We have the wiring diagram off of TIS, and we've looked over it a good deal but can't come to any solid conclusions. I'm thinking I might pull the engine control module and check that for any fried components but, being on the passenger side of the car, it couldn't have been the source of the smell.

    Any ideas as to where to look and what to try would be greatly appreciated. This is our main car and we don't have an excess of cash to replace it. I can take any pictures, videos, or readings that might be needed.

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,661
    15,661
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I would recommend getting one month of TIS, $75. This will give you time to read, research, and fix. Just some quick thoughts:
    • hybrid ECU is under the passenger side floor-mat
    • engine ECU is to the right of the glove box
    • power steering ECU is behind the glove box
    Sounds like you're interested in keeping it working and have some skills and resources to draw on.

    Bob Wilson
     
    Meg&Bear likes this.
  3. 48mpg

    48mpg Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2015
    193
    47
    0
    Location:
    florida
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    I
    id disconnect the batteries before it burns to the ground and look for melted wires ...if you smelled it inside the car while driving its most likely in the fuse box
     
  4. 2020Oliner

    2020Oliner Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    8
    4
    0
    Location:
    Waikoloa, HI
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I didn't really smell it inside the car. I think the little I did smell just came through the window. It was definitely much stronger under the hood.

    I checked the four fuse boxes (both sides of engine compartment, to left of steering wheel, and on aux battery) and nothing was blown, nor was there any smell. I also checked for signs of burning wires, but I couldn't find anything.

    I have the aux battery disconnected now to keep the security system from draining it. Maybe I should keep the HV battery disconnected too (though it's been a week and the car hasn't burst into flames yet).

    And thanks, Bob, for mentioning I had incorrectly identified the hybrid ECU. I think I'll pull that out too and take a look.

    I subscribed to TIS for 3 days and downloaded all the wiring diagrams. Anything else you think I should have from them?

    Thanks a bunch, guys.
     
  5. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,200
    6,482
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I think you should remove the inverter cover (the shiny aluminum piece) so that you can inspect the high voltage orange cables that lead to the two motor-generators in the transaxle.

    Also, get Mini VCI to see if that is more successful in retrieving DTC from the various Prius ECUs.
     
    Meg&Bear, DRACO and bwilson4web like this.
  6. 2020Oliner

    2020Oliner Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    8
    4
    0
    Location:
    Waikoloa, HI
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I ordered a Mini VCI reader yesterday. It should be here by Monday.

    I took out the hybrid ECU and ECM as well. Nothing appeared damaged under a visual inspection. No smells.

    I'll remove the inverter cover again and check the wires. I just need to get my hands back on large enough torx bits...

    Wouldn't the car have burned down by now if the high voltage wires were shorted? Or it would've popped a fuse somewhere... It took a while for whatever it was to melt to the point where the car died, so I'm thinking it wasn't high voltage. (After I first detected a hint of the smell it made it another 10 or so miles before it died.)

    Here's a picture of the inverter from the last time I had it open:
    IMG_0216.JPG
    Inverter coolant levels are fine, BTW. Changed it within the last four months.
     
  7. IMkenNY

    IMkenNY Im just being nosy

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2012
    477
    303
    6
    Location:
    Tropical Buffalo NY
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four Touring
    Transaxle winding failure?, A resistance measurement may provide some insight.
     
  8. MDNHW11

    MDNHW11 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    54
    25
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Option 1: Get a scan tool that is Prius compatible. Get the DTCs. Go from there.
    Option 2: If there is a simple circuit that quit working on the vehicle, eg, horn, Headlights, etc, then diagnose it first, and you might be led to the source of the issue.
     
  9. 2020Oliner

    2020Oliner Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    8
    4
    0
    Location:
    Waikoloa, HI
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I received my Mini VCI yesterday and got the Techstream software working on a spare laptop. I was able to connect to some of the car's computers, but not all. Here's a screenshot:
    Capture 3.PNG

    The EMPS is the only one that shows an error. It says a power supply relay is out, but that's probably just the result of a more general power failure.
    EMPS-error.png

    In the first image, it shows the immobilizer as having an unknown status. I'm not exactly sure how that differs from "not supported or not responding," but perhaps it means the computer has power but is confused and the DTC reader is able to (partially) connect to it. The immobilizer being confused would explain the engine not starting, but the immobilizer is interior electronics, and the burning smell was in the engine compartment.

    There's still more to the problem than the immobilizer being messed up though. The other computers don't seem to be working, which explains the missing HV battery charge on the multi display, gas gauge confusion, and missing outside temperature reading (it says "E").

    I tried running a CAN bus check, and it didn't come up with anything. It may have returned an error the first time, but when I tried it again I didn't return anything but a blank table. I could try running it again and post a screenshot if anyone thinks it would be useful.


    Apart from computer checks, I also pulled off the inverter cover again and gave the connectors a good sniff. By this time the smell in the engine compartment had gone away, but I may have been able to detect a slight hint of the smell near these connectors. Had this been the same smell, it could have been traveling up the high voltage shielding tubes, in which case the source would've been the transaxle. I measured the resistance across the terminals, and they all measured the same, very low resistance (I can't remember exactly what it was, but I can go measure again if need be).

    It is possible that the transaxle was damaged recently. I've taken over servicing this car, and I drained the engine coolant a few months back. But I took out one too many plugs on the bottom, meaning I (**wincing**) accidentally drained the inverter coolant reservoir as well. The car ran fine for a while, but when we tried to climb several thousand feet it went into panic/overheat mode and shut down. When I got home I realized what I'd done and promptly refilled the reservoir. Then the car ran fine for another two-plus months, before this happened while cruising on level ground.

    So let's say that my ignorance killed the transaxle. Why did it wipe out so many computers, without (seemingly) taking out anything on the inverter board?

    I could potentially salvage a good transaxle from a friend's Prius (dead HV battery), but I just watched a video on YouTube and it looks like it'll be more trouble than it's worth to replace it. I'm hoping it doesn't come to this...
     

    Attached Files:

  10. 2020Oliner

    2020Oliner Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    8
    4
    0
    Location:
    Waikoloa, HI
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I'm also not familiar with the Techstream software, if anyone has any usage tips, they'd be much appreciated. :)
     
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,661
    15,661
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Ok,

    The Techstream shows what sounds like something has 'crowbared' the 12V supply to your ECUs and/or a major fuse has gone 'poof'. Since it calls out a failed power relay, maybe that is it? I need to check the diagnostic manual to see which one. TIS may be your fastest source (recommend $75 so you have a full month of access without being under the gun.)

    So let's start from basics:
    1. What is 12V at battery in trunk OFF and car ON (or as close as it can come?)
      1. Off 11.95 - 12.85 is normal, health battery range
      2. On 13.95 - 14.25 is normal, the DC-to-DC converter is working to charge battery
    2. Does horn, emergency flashers, dome light work?
      1. Direct from battery via DC-to-DC (aka. 12 V charging part) works
    3. Turn car ON
      1. Do wipers and washer work? -> IG1 relay OK
      2. Do tail lights work with lights on? -> Tail light relay OK
      3. Does cigarette lighter have voltage? -> ACC relay OK
      4. With parking brake released, day light running lights lit? -> Power to head relay OK
      5. Turn lights on and flash bright and dims? -> Head relay OK
      6. Is inverter coolant pump running? -> IG2 relay is OK
      7. Does the car steering turn easy? -> power steering controller and power is OK
      8. Does combination meter light?
    Ok, the next set of tests are more invasive so turn the car off. Removing the glove compartment gives access to the power steering controller and to the right, the engine controller. Lifting the passenger side carpet gives access to hybrid vehicle controller (I have not done this yet but others may have experience.) What we need to do is measure the 12V power lines feeding these controllers (there are more than one.) We need to find out why they are not getting the power so they can respond to the Techstream.

    Anyone else have another approach?

    If power to engine and hybrid ECU is OK, we need to 'ohm out' the OBD bus (which is NOT a CAN bus.) This model Prius uses ISO-9141 which only uses the K-line. Worse, we may have to get into the dash and that facia is terribly fragile and will bust-apart.

    For good measure, double check all fuses in the hard to reach panel in the lower left and the engine compartment. The fusible links are harder to check.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #11 bwilson4web, Apr 20, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2016
    Meg&Bear likes this.
  12. 2020Oliner

    2020Oliner Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    8
    4
    0
    Location:
    Waikoloa, HI
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Good news! We got the car working again!

    Turns out the inverter coolant pump was bad, and that was what was smoking. It had blown the AM2 fuse, which we hadn't noticed at first (note to self: check all fuses twice before digging deeper and wasting time). We replaced the fuse and saw that the pump was smoking. The local Toyota dealer had the pump in stock, and my dad was able to talk them into selling it to us for $155.

    Now the car is running great again (or as well as it can for a car with 200K+ miles on it). The timing belt does need to be replaced though, as it's making noise. I guess that's next on the list...

    Thanks so much for all the help, guys! Though I may have wasted a bunch of my time, I did learn a lot.
     
    Meg&Bear, Brian in Tucson and MDNHW11 like this.
  13. DRACO

    DRACO Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2015
    362
    77
    0
    Location:
    Rancho Palos Verdes, California
    Vehicle:
    2002 Prius
    Model:
    One
    Congrats!