Volt 2.0: Ruess "It will leap-frog... the competition"

Really? Even after the reveal of Prime, you still don't see why the older generation wasn't rolled out any further.

 

If Toyota had rolled out the PiP when they said they would, and still stopped a year before the Prime, that would still be two years of national sales. Two years of more sales over a wider geographical range for increased word of mouth advertising and educating the public on how Toyota views a plug in hybrid.

 

Why would you want to educate the public about a design planned to be changed?

After all, we've seen that cause many problems in the past. It makes no sense intentionally confusing consumers when it could so easily be avoided.

 

Why did you buy a PiP? Are you happy or sad that Toyota manufactured it? Your discussion keeps coming across as Toyota was smart to make a car you wanted but even smarter to deny me the same car.

 

I knew exactly what I was buying. Expectations of GEN-1 were quite clear. So, I have been very happy with that choice.

Expectations of GEN-2 were very different. And based upon what's been revealed to us so far, Toyota will do well fulfilling them too.

The problem with the availability has been adaptation to the changing market. Toyota included that in their plans. That annoyed the heck out of some supporters. They didn't expect the halting of rollout... even though that was always one of the potential choices.

Running such a massive business requires a careful consideration to risk. Leveraging other aspects of HSD advancement while collecting real-world data from the limited PHV rollout, along with analysis of consumer perception seems to have resulted in a Prime that will reach out to a new audience.

Expanding the market (penetrating deeper into the mainstream) is the ultimate goal. You can't please all the people all the time. You can widen appeal by responding with variety though.

Those are my observations. What are yours?

 

Simple:
1) Announced nationwide rollout of PiP...actual actions were to halt production early with no national rollout.
2) Announced corporate opinion that EV vehicles were not a viable market...actual actions were to discontinue EV developments
3) Announced corporate effort to push FCVs almost exclusively as future vehicle technology.


Both the announcements and actions are to slow roll BEV and PHEV while massively pushing FCVs. For those of us actually interested in putting our wallets on the line for sustainable (e.g. non-fossil fuel) vehicle technologies, Toyota is forcing us to look at other vehicle makers. The same motivations that caused a huge number of folks to buy the Prius are now the motivations causing many to look outside of Toyota. I would prefer a Toyota choice be in that mix. Toyota disagrees.

 

Looking outside is beneficial, it's a method of getting the stubborn market to change. Think of it as negative advertising, which is counter-intuitive but can be quite successful.

 

I'm having trouble figuring out what you are saying. "..market to change" means change to what endpoint? BEVs, FCVs, Straight Hybrids, what? I'm not trying to be difficult here. I really think Toyota is doing everything possible to create a demand for FCVs at the expense of BEVs. Do you think that is true or that a different Toyota agenda is in play?

The "negative advertising" logic is also beyond my grasp. I can interpret that as "since Toyota is against EVs, Toyota customers will now start wanting EVs". I know that is not what was your intent, but I actually do not know what is meant.

 

you will get the prime though.

 

My choices are situation dependent. If the 2001 Prius finally decides to donate a key part to the recycle bin tomorrow, then the Prime is way too far out to consider. So is a Model X or 3. If the 2001 decides to go another few years, then the choices will be far different. I want Toyota reliability. I also feel a need to make real decisions to walk the walk on sustainability.

 

There's a simple way to explain it. Oddly though, it's a really difficult concept for people follow. That must have something to do with perspective and information available.

Anywho, here it is: TOYOTA KNEW THE MARKET WOULD BE A MOVING TARGET. That's all.

In other words, each generation would require a reevaluation of need and a response accordingly.

 

Yep, Toyota got it right, while GM is still standing on the sidewalk - watching the competition go by.

DBCassidy

 

Posts on the big GM forum in response to Tesla Model 3 aren't painting a pretty picture. It's becoming easy to see that Bolt & Volt are facing a new set of circumstances, neither one of which is prepared to deal with.

In other words, consumer interest for plugging in is changing much faster than the traditional vehicle model-cycle planning allows. Being prepared to make changes to plans along the way is a benefit, not a liability as the spin would have us believe.

True, it does look bad in the short-term and could disenchant those with very specific expectations. But looking at the entire production of a vehicle for the next year or two, some will see the wisdom of choosing to adapt based upon what is learned along the way.

Anyone else remember the claim that Volt was the answer to competing with Tesla?

Since the reveal of Model 3, there has been an abandonment of Volt.

Look at any of the GM forums & blogs. The posts are all about Bolt. It's as if Volt is just a memorable chapter in history and everyone has moved on.

This further supports the approach Toyota has taken. Not only is it proving wise to have halted PiP rollout because Prime would offer so much more, but there's also the strategy of keeping a distance from the supposed competition... especially if it ends up having trouble attracting customers.

The claim all along that Volt is the EV solution for "range anxiety". Based on initial market response, we're seeing the solution is actually just a big enough battery-pack.

Volt is in an awkward position of not being able to compete with its intended target.

That's where Prime comes in. For those wanting the EV experience, but also wanting extremely efficient MPG afterward, why not get a plug-in Prius?

What would make the consumer purchase a Volt instead? Greater range seems like an easy draw, but why bother when you could just buy a Model 3, Bolt, or Leaf instead?

 

So Model 3 and Bolt are why everyone has moved on but that somehow validates Toyota's lame PP and lack of EV? And as the recent engineering articles for Bolt have indicated, it stands on the shoulders of what GM learned doing the Volt and Spark.

 

Everyone !?!

No, plug-in hybrids will be around for a long time... hybrids too. Traditional vehicles will dominate for many years to come still. This is only the second chapter and EV history.

 

The frustration is quiet evident. It's been a really rough year for the volt haterz:

First Volt gen2 comes out much improved. Next, the long delayed Gen 4 Prius is rolled out, umm, rather awkwardly. Toyota immediately rolls back sales projections. Right on the heels comes the announcement of the innovative Bolt shifting attention. Next, the Prime reveal is met with more jeers than cheers. And finally, the Model 3 announcement which needs no further explanation.

Folks, it's best to give them some space.

 

How many people are included in the "everyone", are you guys bragging about these numbers, seriously?

Let me know when your plugin can hold enough charge at $0.12/KWh, to equate 1 gallon of gas in a Prius!

 

Much improved for enthusiasts. Yes, there's no disagreement with that. Targeted at the masses... How could that be a yes?

Power & Range were increased, but what shows us that was what ordinary mainstream consumers actually wanted?

GM delivered a design appealing to a small group. In fact, that's why Malibu hybrid and the CT6 plug-in will later be rolled out.

Why are those observations labeled as hate?

 

I was just quoting John's language. He's the one that said "everyone has moved on". Let's focus on Toyota's business and design decisions, and whether John's constant bad mouthing of GM, and unrelenting praise for Toyota, has any factual basis or makes any sense.

 

Gm, has to face the honest truth: the market is not there for them to capture. Too little, too late. Competition is closing rapidly around everywhere GM tries to expand. Competition, which GM, to this day, does not recognize nor understand.

The real question now, is: how long can GM last?

DBCassidy