Who is plunking down $1k?

i think they're writing all the tesla fud.

 

After reserving on site, I didn't see the email until 30 hours later. Assuming you haven't gotten the email by now, try logging into your My Tesla account where the reservation # should be listed.

 

Just GM? I hope this is an even bigger wakeup call to Toyota.

 

i doubt it.

 

To do what specifically?

It's not a losing situation letting Tesla push the market, especially with Nissan & GM trying to figure out how to compete. Prime will be targeting Toyota's own traditional customers in the meantime. Don't forget about the challenge it is to get those not in a position to just plunk down $1K to consider something with a plug.

 

At least over 250k people want a midrange EV. Toyota should have 1000 rotten eggs covering their shameless faces with the plug-in FUD and H2 misrepresentation they've engaged.

 

GM engaged in an intense anti-EV campaign for years. What about that? It was far moe than just a few television commercials and random comments.

The FUD about Toyota spreadiung FUD is getting a bit out of hand. Remember how they were claimed to be anti-plug until just recently?

 

Develop a production EV.

It becomes a losing situation at some point. Every vehicle Tesla sells is an EV not sold by anyone else. That is adding up to a heck of a lot of cars over the next few years. While Toyota is planning on making thousands of FCVs, Tesla is committed to 100,000s of EVs. Which is the winning situation and which is the token situation?

 

over 253k @ 7am per a Musk tweet.

one company builds their own infrastructure because they believe enough in it - the other lobbys tax dollars .... but needs a cool trillion or so from us - they won't pay for it their self.
.

 

Can you imagine GM having some 250k promissory orders for the newest Volt 2 in 36 hours????????????????????

 

Ugh. I asked for specifics. That couldn't have been any more vague...

What range? How many? What price? When?

It's not like they won't be producing lithium batteries for plug-in use anyway. For that matter, they continue to refine the production of the electric motors and advance the controller hardware.

That's spreading the FUD on pretty thick. You know Toyota is working to deliver a hybrid option for every passenger vehicle they offer by 2020. You know Toyota is pushing more with EV propulsion and plugging in through Prime. You know Toyota plans for FCV are long-term, not until the next decade will high-volume be pursued. You also know that several other automakers are also working to deliver FCVs. Lastly, you know that EV and FCV are not mutually exclusive.

Why is the situation presented as an extreme, as if there is no way possible to expand & extend that's offered? We are far from reaching that point. There quite a bit of flexibility still available. Deliveries of the first Model 3 won't happen until when? Think about the "get it right" opportunities that Prime will provide. Toyota will gain experience with the battery production on a scale large enough to respond to the market well.

 

I'm leaving it to Toyota to pick whatever EV configuration they want...as long as it is an EV. Presently both Tesla and the Bolt have about a 200 mile range. So that is a good start point. It shows where the technology is presently.

No, it is not "FUD". Toyota has no production EV for sale now or in the near future in the US.

A great many PC members have changed to driving BEVs. Quite a few are now on the waiting list for the Model 3. Why? It just might be that they have figured out the big advantages of BEVs. At over 200k Model 3 deposits, "they" is a very large crowd and growing. Obviously Toyota thinks this is a fad. Toyota's senior leadership has stated that. That is an extreme mistake.

 

And accusing Toyota of engaging in an EV-smearing campaign is not FUD either.

 

That's called drawing a conclusion based on anecdotal evidence. Don't get hung up on the first 4%. Stepping back to look at the bigger picture, this natural progression to the next stage should be relatively easy to see. Focusing on just those who participated so far means not seeing the other 96% of the market.

What are the consequences of the supposed mistake anyway? First by no means equates to everyone else failing. For that matter, it doesn't guarantee success either. Just look at how horribly wrong both Two-Mode and Volt were for GM. Sales were a major struggle, despite being first and supposedly best.

Tesla will most likely do well. Some of that simply comes as a result of being able to dedicate resources. They don't have any legacy technology to deal with, nor customers demanding to purchase it. Toyota does. Traditional production must continue while new territory is explored. They'll use that to seek out opportunities about to reach those other 96%.

The market is enormous and there is a great deal of potential still. True, we will see pressure forcing approaches to change. But don't go writing up an obituary upon the first sign of another automaker's success. We only recently finished the first inning. Look at the entire market. The gen-2 rollouts have just begun. The mainstream consumer hasn't even been a participant yet.

The attitude of pushing EV range accomplishes what? Sure, it captures interest. But how does that improve motor, controller, and battery technology. Any plug-in offering will deliver that needed data. In fact, the less there is to work with, the greater the engineering effort to compete.

Go ahead and congratulate Tesla. Those orders are an amazing achievement. That recognition is well earned. But don't declare the other approaches to deal with emission & consumption issues dead until there's something actually showing high-volume profitable sales haven't happened. The low-hanging fruit doesn't represent what comes next.

 

Even when [finally] congratulating Tesla you minimize their accomplishments.
Tesla has constantly been making advancements in motor, controller and battery tech.
Besides, earlier you used the sales numbers to measure success. Now it's tech?

Regarding "don't declare the other approaches to deal with emission & consumption issues dead until there's something actually showing high-volume profitable sales", Tesla is getting awfully close to your 60,000/year sales number, and their sales are profitable.

If hybrid sales remain stuck at 3% and plugins continue to grow, what would that mean to you?

 

Good example of failing to look at the bigger picture. I said sales of a specific vehicle. It's a matter of production cost & profit. The automaker needs several of those to sustain the business as a whole. Model 3 should do well to provide that diversity.

That's spreading FUD, specifically the "D" part. Asking that question is very much an attempt to raise doubt. Totally disregarding the fact that Hyundai and Chrysler and GM are rolling out new choices this year is just plain wrong. You know that the just-rolled-out RAV4 hybrid is selling well too. Let's not forget the new Prius either. Of course the hybrid market will grow. That's a "D" for Duh!

 

are you saying tesla hasn't had any government help? i still don't think toyota is making a 'mistake'. they can jump into the ev game at any time, if it proves out to be profitable.

 

I was simply asking for clarification of your statement:

This seems an odd statement which is why I asked for clarification.
By saying that someone shouldn't declare other approaches dead until there is..., isn't that synonymous with "you should declare them dead once there is..."

I don't agree with that, but your own phrasing seems to say that, which is why I asked for clarification.

 

I think the main difference drawn is that Tesla is taking advantage of government programs that the others got put in place. The federal tax credit for plug ins was drawn up with the help of GM and Toyota. Tesla might have been in the hallway, but they weren't in the room.

For Toyota to have a chance at BEVs, they need to drop the group think that BEV buyers only want a cheap, short range city car, that is only more practical than a NEV in terms of max speed. The data for that came during the time of the EV1 when most BEVs were still lead acid. This is what gave us the iQ electric with its shorter than gen2 Volt EV range.

 

in both cases, don't blame the user, blame the enabler. just because you see it as wrong headed, doesn't make it so.