Featured Volkswagen XL3

​

"All without any of those pesky emissions standards."

 

I rather liked the jetta hybrid when I tried it a few years ago. But I imagine this thing will sell just as well as that jetta did.

 

I could care less about smogate, but unless they fix their quality control and TCO issues...won't even think about buying from them again...gas, diesel, hybrid, EV or what-ever.

 

How strange. Wasn't diesel the future for these guys?
So soon pointing another way, maybe a software glitch somewhere in their steering rack?
[can't help feeling anxious, my car is suddently pointed as a target]
[first Insight, then Jetta hybrid, lately Ioniq, now this!]

 

Volkswagen XL1 spied | Auto Express

Should You Believe the ‘Hype’ On VW’s ‘261 MPG’ XL1?

 

I'm willing to believe those numbers but skeptical about their significance for several reasons.

Conditions have a huge effect: Starting a run with a fully warmed up car eliminates poor MPG suffered while the gas engine heats up and the battery reaches full charge and operating temperature. Warm temps, not so hot one needs A/C, mild tailwind or no wind, humidity seems to help (don't know why). "Friendly" terrain, which for me means gently rolling, with downhills just steep enough to coast down in neutral with engine off, followed by shortish/steeper uphills. Not too much traffic.

Just for fun, in my Insight-I I once recorded a summer segment on the Mass Pike over the 28 miles from Worcester to the Natick rest area, a 500' overall elevation drop, favorable weather, base speed 50mph in light traffic. I hit the button as I glided onto the Pike at full speed, car thoroughly warmed up after 1.5 hours of driving. I have a photo showing 136mpg over those 28 miles. In the years I owned the car I got trips in the 110mpg range and entire 10 gallon tanks at 100+mpg (in the summer!) but never anything approaching 136mpg. Lifetime MPG over the years I owned it was 85. So the 136mpg is just a "fun" number, and I would put VW's rumored 241mpg into that category.

As reported, other drivers were unable to approach 241mpg. I suspect because when fuel usage gets that low, any small mistake has a huge effect. I found this to be true when driving the Insight-I at high MPG's.

The VW is about 250 lbs lighter than the Insight-I, and has a Li-ion battery, both of which should help.

The last part made me sigh. People were always salivating online about turning the Insight-I into a "sports car" because it looked like one, and sadly some conversions were done. The car was so purpose-built for MPG that extensive revisions were necessary, and pretty much killed MPG (except possibly for a couple of carefully thought out turbo installations). Looking at the spindly front suspension made the thought of adding a lot of HP scary. Would it seem sensible to take a sports car, say a Porsche, and rip it apart to convert it into a high MPG diesel hybrid? To me, that would make even less sense than converting a Porsche sports car into an offload vehicle. If the overall shape of VW's XL1 seems as though it would make a good sports car, why not just design from the ground up a sports car based on it?

 

JohnF, the XL1 is a plug-in hybrid, some (most) of the energy comes from a different source.
Prius PHV is rated 112MPG in Europe. Ampera/Volt was rated 196MPG.

 

XL1 - 1 liter car. Is able to do it because of the easy european test. no one needs a 1 liter car, and its expensive and diesel.

XL3 - cross between a XL1, Jetta hybrid, and a prius. This is the first vw dedicated hybrid and looks to be vary aerodynamic and primed to be a highway mpg champion. It will come after the ioniq which is quite similar, the waters are getting more competitive. Likely 170 hp versus the ioniq's 139 hp, and prius's 121 hp - I can't belive this will be able to be sold for less than the ioniq, so it will not take much market share from the prius.


Picture 5 - Prius-fighting Volkswagen XL3 coming in 2018?

 

Well it looks better (subjective) than the Gen IV Prius anyway.

 

Bob, the badge VW is a ugh also

 

Bob that is the xl1 - liter car. It is very slipper to the wind and light. It is also carbon fiber and a 2 cylinder - 40 hp 0.8L tdi engine that makes it expensive and slow. IIRC around $100,000 and slower to 60 than a prius.

The XL3 (3L/km) will be much less expensive and less frugal on fuel (3x more). I expect it will keep a lot of the aero but won't be as small (your squeeze space is for low A in cd A for low drag and great mpg even at high speeds. XL3 - more room, steel, less expensive more powerful gas engine (likely a 1.4L di turbo that runs in the miller cycle). 3x fuel is 87 mpg but on the easy euro test where the gen III prius got 77 mpg on that test.

 

Not to mention illegal.......

I'm getting tired of all the pronouncements, especially from VW, Mercedes, and BMW, that they have developed some new auto tech that will change the world!!!!! All the "blue-this" and "blue-that". The releases are companied by photos of a vehicle with the new tech and various factoids about it. And then it is never produced (or at best produced in tiny numbers) and we never hear more about it, and on to the next New Thing.

 

Actually, it's conquer the world. It's a German thing.

 

Oh it is legal in europe. They limited production to 250 units (50 government sales, 200 retail). Its an engineering example that is meant to trickle down technology. Really compared to fuel cell vehicles to sell in a very expensive oil world it has done fine. Oil is cheap, that is why we see the xl3 as the trickle down tech car instead of an xl2.

VW managed to build in the XL1 a car that had half the drag and half the rolling resistance of a prius. Add in the magic of a more efficient diesel engine, and a test that is very friendly to phevs, and you got a 1 liter car (1 liter/100km) and vw hit their goal. Really before the xl1 was in production at the end of 2013, vw had merged with porsche. Porsche already had the 918 supercar that is a proof of concept in many of the same technologies (carbon fiber light weighting, phev for efficiency once batteries are low) with a limited production of 918 sports cars and a profitable run. VW had already positioned gasoline not diesel in their hybrids and phev. Why diesel? It just was easier for a low production demo car.

I would say the XL1 is a better proof of concept than the hype machine mirai. Both Toyota and VW group are going for highest volume. VW was clear from the start the XL1 was a proof of concept, that today, with a glut of oil we don't need.

Now that phev tech works great in the 918, but probably is not as good of a fit in the a3-etron that only gets 16 mile epa range on the US test. Its time to build a hybrid and phev on a dedicated platform. I think we should welcome vw here, instead of bringing up all this bagage.

 

"VW managed to build in the XL1 a car that had half the drag and half the rolling resistance of a prius." And 2/5 the seating capacity. A critical fact.

"They limited production to 250 units (50 government sales, 200 retail). Its an engineering example that is meant to trickle down technology." Exactly, proves my point. Precisely what has trickled down in VW during the past 2 years since the build finished? Is the concept still being proved? Was the concept really such a leap forward anyway, given Honda's previous production of the 2-seat Insight 1 and CR-Z hybrids? Back in 2000-2001 Toyota and Honda jumped into hybrids with both feet (Honda producing both the Insight-I and the Civic Hybrid), Honda eventually building 14,000 Insight-I's. They didn't sell small test fleets and then think about it for a while.

"Oh it is legal in europe." Splitting hairs: it is legal only because it falls under an exemption, it does not meet safety standards and so does not qualify as a car that is available for widespread use. Worth remembering that both NOx and carbon particles are poisons.

"I think we should welcome vw here, instead of bringing up all this baggage." Defrauding a large segment of the public in probably the largest scandal in automotive history is hardly just "baggage". The scandal is still unfolding: what about all the TDI owners in limbo who cannot sell their cars until VW figures out what to do (VW just missed a court date, BTW)? Unfortunately for VW, that makes any of its claims suspect.

I agree with you completely about the fuel cell vehicles which have gone nowhere. Don't forget the one that Honda was working on.

I just get tired of all the new technology that is introduced to great hoo-ha and then is never produced. Certainly the European manufacturers are not the only ones guilty of this, it's just that their press departments seem to be the most active in this area. For example, a few years ago Mazda developed the iStart technology that eliminated the starter motor. I thought it was wonderful - and they never used it!

 

Mirai is cheaper than XL1. Sucess!

 

XL1's fuel allows refueling where ever it goes. Sucess!

 

What looks better than Gen 4, this?