1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

First time buyer - purchase advice please!

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Main Forum' started by Hoddie, Mar 13, 2016.

  1. Hoddie

    Hoddie Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    87
    110
    0
    Location:
    Belgium
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    We've had a 2005 Prius since new, bought by my wife before we were married. She received a decent discount after casually mentioning where she worked (civil servant in politics). There was nothing iffy about it, she didn't do it on purpose, the salesman didn't call anyone or anything, just simply offered a good discount in the hope that she might say good things about it to colleagues I guess, "oh, well, perhaps I can reduce by another €3,000" or words to that effect. Incidentally, she only became interested in the Prius after having a succession of European car manufacturers tell her that hybrids were evil, a fad, and that there would be no future in them...

    Anyhow I digress. I need some advice. After a little under 10 years of issue-free running with our Prius, we recently had to replace the suspension and tyres (only previous works were replacing a wing mirror after vandalism and another tyre set at about 6 years in). We figure this would be a good time to replace and the release of the Gen 4 is a happy coincidence.

    I've never personally bought a car from new before. Everyone I know tells me that you don't pay ticket price. So, what would be a good deal? Free accessories? A 4-figure discount? Both? I actually don't mind the price so anything would be a bonus, but obviously I'd like to get as good a deal as possible. We're not made of money but we like a decent car because we occasionally go on long treks all over Europe (from Belgium to Croatia, Spain, northern Scotland, etc.).

    In Belgium they only offer 2 models at retail - the 'Comfort' (basic) and 'Lounge' (premium). One is basically standard, no frills, the other comes with 17" wheels and, as far as I can see, all tech upgrades including JBL premium sound. We're looking at the Lounge model because of the tech features, we're hoping this car will last us another 10 years and figure these features will become standard on most cars before too long so might as well jump on the bandwagon now. We'd also like to keep our red colour but this comes at a €595 premium for some reason (all other colours except white are €475).

    Ticket price €34,260
    "Emotional Red" (what a name...) €595
    No additional tax or fees except perhaps a licence plate transfer fee of < €100.
    (€1 = $1.12 currently)

    So, any advice regards getting a good deal? What should we aim for? 5% off total price? Free upgrade for red? Maybe some of the exterior options like the chrome surrounds? Are these priced high so they look like a great offer when given away for free? As I say, no idea how this works so any advice would be appreciated!

    Incidentally, any idea of the trade-in value, in Belgium, for a 2005 Prius with new suspension/tyres and ~190,000km (~120,000 miles) on the clock? :)
     
  2. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    7,044
    7,587
    0
    Location:
    near Brisbane, Australia
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    In Australia - we have EMOTIONAL RED too.
     
    bisco and Hoddie like this.
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,141
    50,053
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    i like to email all the dealers i'm willing to drive to, and go with the lowest price. all the best!
     
    Hoddie likes this.
  4. Hoddie

    Hoddie Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    87
    110
    0
    Location:
    Belgium
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Certainly worth a try, not sure why that never crossed my mind.
     
    bisco likes this.
  5. goldfinger

    goldfinger Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    535
    402
    0
    Location:
    Buffalo
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Here in the US I use sites like Edmunds and Kelly blue book to find out what others are paying. Next I lock down what financing I can get on my own from credit unions and online loans. The dealer is going to end up with the financing, but now he has to work a little harder.

    When I'm ready to buy the car that day I start calling dealers on the phone, the message goes something like this "hey I'm on my way to dealer-x to buy a model-y but I thought I'd check a few other dealers quick and make sure I'm getting a good deal". They'll ask what price you were quoted, but never divulge this, just say "I'm not going to tell you". "Wait a minute honey, I'm on the phone, don't put your coat on yet". Meanwhile at the dealership alarm bells are ringing and within 10 minutes or less you'll be talking to the manager and have the lowest price. I've bought 3 vehicles this way and one the old fashioned way where you argue for 4 hours. I negotiated a car for the in-laws and the winning dealer called me back before I finished my calls with an even better deal. The man with a sharp pencil sold a car that day.

    I'll give the dealer that did the up front work a crack at the sale to. "Hey I'm buying it today, I've called other dealers, no you can't know what they quoted, give me your best price". This is a thick skinned game. That being said I like to give the up front guy a $200 advantage for time spent.

    Good luck.
     
    Hoddie likes this.
  6. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    7,044
    7,587
    0
    Location:
    near Brisbane, Australia
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    The trouble is - at least in Australia, they mess with you if you've got a trade-in.

    After giving their "best" price, and you ask what they'll give for your trade, they all ask "so you're buying from ME today". When you say - no, I'm going to Mazda/Volvo/another-Toyota to get their trade-in price as soon as you give me yours, I've had them refuse to "give one till I know you're going to buy" from him.

    I started the process of buying 15 months ago, and first dealer refused a test-drive when I told them that I had 5 competitive cars on my short-list, and after test-driving, I'd make a decision. I was all set to buy that week - I had money set aside, waiting.

    That, I find really stressful. So much so, I abandoned the whole process. And that dealer (who had the car which I think would have won), missed out on a sale. I put my money back into my investment.

    When I started off anew 2 months ago, the first salesman refused to give a trade-in price till I'd driven all my short-listed cars (though did take me for a good test-drive). The second put on a hissy-fit (I thought she was going to cry) when I said that I wasn't going to sign-up NOW, but was going to test drive some more cars, but she did give me a (lousy) trade-in valuation - which wiped her off the list.

    I would think that, giving their best price initially would be to their advantage. I hate haggling, I won't go back after a bad offer - but I can (generally) tell when I'm being conned, so I just walk away - someone will want to sell honestly eventually.
     
    Hoddie likes this.
  7. I'mJp

    I'mJp Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    628
    552
    0
    Location:
    Ma, USA
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    Three
    I find it fun to walk into a dealership up to the receptionist, and ask if there was anyone that wanted to sell a car.
    Everybody in the general area stiffens, and looks around.
     
    Hoddie likes this.
  8. Hoddie

    Hoddie Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    87
    110
    0
    Location:
    Belgium
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    That sounds like fun. All good ideas everyone, food for thought. Thanks very much.
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,141
    50,053
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    a trade in does complicate matters. you can't get that over the net.
     
  10. goldfinger

    goldfinger Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    535
    402
    0
    Location:
    Buffalo
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    I've discovered your problem. A 10 year old car has zero trade in value to the dealer but they'll never tell you this. They will play the game of making you feel good that you got enough for your old car. The only way to do this is by raising the price of the new car. Don't trade in and your experience will change dramatically.

    Sell the old car yourself. Figure out the expected price and cut it in half. That's your no haggle price. Hey if you don't want this crap on the buying end you probably don't want it on the sales end either. You'll have a quick sale and make someone happy as well.
     
    krmcg likes this.
  11. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    7,044
    7,587
    0
    Location:
    near Brisbane, Australia
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Very probably - though mine is only 4yrs old. It'd be good to have a consistent answer, rather than having to try to interpret what it means.

    I sold privately last 3 times - so might have a go at that.

    Even if I don't get top $$$ for my car, it is one less factor to keep in mind when negotiating a new car - and means that one dealers $$$ is the same as the next.
     
  12. 'LectroFuel

    'LectroFuel Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2016
    880
    673
    0
    Location:
    San Juan Capistrano, CA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Don't sell the 05 Prius!:D
     
    Hoddie likes this.
  13. Hoddie

    Hoddie Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    87
    110
    0
    Location:
    Belgium
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Just came back from the dealer today. We employed the "call all dealers" technique recommended by @bisco and @goldfinger above, offering them the chance to give us their best price before we head out to our appointment at the main dealer. Only two of them chose to engage - the rest were typically very Belgian about it and didn't want to play. One of the dealers gave us a good vibe as well as a noticeably different discount over the other, but we played it cool and ended the call uncommitted. We decided to drop by this morning to continue negotiations. The guy we spoke to was out on a test drive so the manager stepped in, which itself might be a tactic on their part for all I know.

    We kept quiet about the trade-in initially. So, this was the deal we negotiated (all EUR €)

    Prius Lounge (premium) in 'Emotional Red' 34,850.00
    Accessories we wanted 254.22

    Discount 4365.43 or 12.44%

    At this point we mentioned the trade in. He took a look at our car, checked his valuation book, made a call and came back with a value of 3500.00. As @goldfinger had suggested we'd researched online for completed sales of the same model in similar condition/miles/etc. and the average sale price was about 2700.00, or 800.00 lower than his offer, so we didn't even bother negotiating on this.

    With trade-in, the total discount on list price is 7865.43 or 22.41%

    We also have the option to try and sell our car before we take delivery of the new one, so it costs us nothing except perhaps a little hassle to see if we can get an improved offer from elsewhere.

    I'd like to thank everyone for their input - I'm not sure if we got the best deal or not but I'm very confident it's better than the one I'd have managed without your help.

    Delivery in July :)

    Thanks again!
     
    goldfinger and bisco like this.
  14. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    7,044
    7,587
    0
    Location:
    near Brisbane, Australia
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    "Delivery in July" Sounds like there's a drastic shortage of stoc.- which country are you in?
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,141
    50,053
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    congrats hoddie, you're getting me excited. can't wait to see it!(y)
     
    Hoddie likes this.
  16. Hoddie

    Hoddie Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    87
    110
    0
    Location:
    Belgium
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Belgium.
     
  17. Steve Lee

    Steve Lee Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2016
    135
    88
    0
    Location:
    Houston
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Hoodie,
    Congratulations on your purchase and proud owner of new car.
    In regards car pricing, when converting into USD, you negotiated good pricing in my opinion. Many times comparing USD vs Euro or USD vs Yen or Euro vs Yen does not provide fair/accurate comparison. As example, living in US paying x 1.12 more for Prius due to current Euro vs USD exchange rate (few months back being exchange rate being 1.085), I would wait and buy currency on the dip or buy used car. Since you are in Belgium, your car pricing & tax evaluation is what it counts, not me or others outside Belgium.
     
    Hoddie likes this.
  18. ATHiker

    ATHiker Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    644
    560
    0
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Four Touring
    Congrats on a good buy.

    Out of curiosity, how is the Prius perceived in your country?

    Over here there are those that "get it" and those who just can't understand why on would even consider it when a Camry (for example) is about he same price. And only BMWs or SUVs are worth coveting.
     
  19. Hoddie

    Hoddie Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    87
    110
    0
    Location:
    Belgium
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    It's difficult to say, I don't particularly follow the motor press or anything like that, but our friends and family have always reacted positively to our car. It seems an odd thing to say but I never get in someone else's car and say "ooh, nice car" but that's the sort of thing we get all the time when people travel with us. My wife's best friend considered buying the last Prius but ended up going for an Audi instead, purely because she didn't fancy an automatic.

    Over the last few days I have checked out press reviews of the new model and they all rate it very highly - a couple were positively drooling over its improved performance. I'm pretty sure that the Prius is not just seen as a niche option for environmentalists any more, if it ever was. It's definitely mainstream and we see plenty of them about. Though Renault, Peugeot and VW dominate here, Toyota seem to be doing well enough, for example there are more than 10 Toyota dealers within 5-6 miles of me and not a single Ford one. You can't move in the UK for Fords but they're nowhere near as common here.

    Belgium is a nation of savers. Credit is widely available but few seem to bother with it compared to the UK where everyone has a car on finance. So there are a lot of old cars on the road here, people squeezing the absolute last drop out of their investment. The flip side is that there are also a lot of premium cars as well, I suppose thanks to the high-salary jobs at the European Parliament, NATO, lobbying companies, etc.. It's not uncommon to pull up at the lights in Brussels and have a clapped-out Peugeot 205 from 1990 creep up at one side, and a €120k Audi RS6 Avant at the other. I doubt Belgium is a typical car market :)
     
    ATHiker and bisco like this.
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,141
    50,053
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    a nation of savers, i like the sound of that. bad for the economy though.:cool: