Why America Must Build the Car That Overtakes a Tesla

if the market demands it, i agree with you.

 

Toyota has plenty of cash to do R&D on both. We do know how much of the federal subsidy is left. GM has taken the most and burned through about half, and nissan is only a little behind. Tesla is shipping the most cars and if the model 3 does what most expect, tesla will be done in 2019 too.

The thing people get fed up with on toyota is all the press releases, and lobbying, and internet ads slamming plug-ins. That actually costs money they could be spending developing plug-in cars. I know, I know there lobbying in recent years got them an extra 2 zev credits and $8000 more in fuel cell car subsidies, and probably around $300 M in federal and california hydrogen subsidies. They get lots of money. But that isn't exactly great PR when you only

When reporters ask toyota says the mirai is the future. Then some idiot bloggers post how tesla will fail soon. Perhaps when they move headquarters to texas people will start calling them on their bs powered cars.

2 years is very fast for toyota to even change a head unit, let alone design a car and test the battery. They could be working on it, i don't know.

Honda is now partnering with GM to speed things up. They should have some better phevs and bevs in 2018, but they were already working on them.

 

we don't really know all that goes into changing things. 6 years for a complete redesign of the prius, but that is a lot of changes, and who nows when they started, how fast they wanted to get it done, how many changes of direction they took in their meetings, or how many hours and yen were put into it.

 

Well, at this point, ANY time is too much time wasted on 'the FCV future'. keep waiting and EVs continue to improve and...the sales say it all. Really? 100 Mirai vs. tens of thousands of EVs? Not to mention the handful (12? 15?) h2 stations vs. hundreds of thousands of EV refueling points...NOW, not in 10 years. some even in your garage or workplace! wow.

It's okay, Toyota, to say hydrogen is a mistake, and get an EV out there and compete. You are winning the battle of losers. mission accomplished!

 

Why work on something new,maybe dangerous energy inefficient and expensive when the solution is there! im really amaze there is so much to do with hydrogen. Electricity is clean reliable safe well available and well known there is so much clean way to get it free! hydro, wind, sun, wave, tyde and so much use EVERYTING WORK ON ELECTRICITY TODAY EXEPT DAM ENGINE!......they should spend money on developing battery and get volume who will lower the price. Electric car are reliable and proven for now plugin EV like volt or EV for small commute is the way to go company should work on present before to think futur....

 

probably should be asking the government these questions instead of toyota. when i was in business, you didn't look a gift horse in the mouth.

 

Dont really know about US policy did not even know it was taxe payer money... Our government invest in Hydro electricity many decade ago that why today the only ting we could get cheaper than you guy is Electricity Quebec produce more 100% renewable green Electricity than we could use

 

everything in the u.s. involves taxpayer money.

i wish you would ship some of your cheap electric down through new england.

 

Cleaner than what? I would want to increase EV range if the extra miles are cleaner than the other fuel.

Just to illustrate, take a Prius running on electricity had upstream emissions of 200gm/mile, and then generated 300gm/mile in local and upstream emissions on gas.
If I could buy a Prius that got twice the EV miles, but generated 220gm/mile, I would consider that a big plus.
Sure, you're not saving the full 100gm/mile, but you are still saving more than the shorter range UNLESS you rarely drive more than the shorter EV range. In that case, I agree, stick with the shorter range.

 

for some people, emissions aren't the only, or biggest factor in the equation.

 

I absolutely agree, as a matter of fact, for most it isn't.
That is the measuring stick USB uses though, for deciding if federal rebates are deserved, which car is better, etc.

 

i'm currently for anything that gets us off foreign oil, with a bent toward long term reduction of fossil fuels and pollution. it's a complicated equation, i realize, and partially depends on our (and others) government doing the right thing.

 

I'm a bit neutral on those.
Originally I loved the idea of ethanol. Then, I learned more about how much energy it took to grow the corn.
Many calculations showed it was break even at best.
Bio-diesel I know little about.
I have heard of universities working on getting algae to produce bio-deisel.
My understanding is the biggest issue is scaling up the process.

If they save on emissions, I'm all for them.
If they don't increase emissions and reduce our reliance on foreign fuel I would still call them a win as long as they don't slow down adoption of better technologies.

 

How clean will be on Australian brown coal for the hydrogen?

 

Chevy talks a mean game but I would rather they prove it to me before swallowing all the hype. Time and TIME again they try the same old tactic...hope I am wrong but thats how it is. Hope this car has a push button and not a Cobalt switch lol!
AND it better NOT have any TAKATA airbags...

 

Well the gen II volt is real, and the engineering behind the bolt is out. I'm sure once toyota supplies a car magazine with a mirai for a real test we will see volt versus mirai. December and Janary sales for the gen II volt, look to be a little more than toyota is estimating for 2015-2017 for us sales of the mirai, so we already know which one will sell better.

If the bolt does not turn out well we have gen II leaf and the model III. I don't think we are looking at a single company for sucess.

I think you need to redirect takata rage toward that company and honda Honda Finally Severs its Relationship with Air Bag Inflator Supplier Takata | Supply Chain Matters

Now the big hydrogen main participants and Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai. HOnda and Hyundai have already taken a stop back from the big hydrogen lies, and both are working on bevs and plug-ins. Toyota well. Let's hope that someone tells don quixte, Toyota's Chairman of the Board, who was pictured as such by some not as happy toyota soldiers, that the hydrogen knight, is really a wind mill, and it should be filling a plug-in with electricity.So far Toyota has blown more money on fcv R&D than thay made on Tesla stock, and they made a lot of money on tesla stock.

 

YOUR still swallowing the BS they spew out....when are you going to learn to be NOT a FAN Boy on these introductions and specifications that have NOT proven in sales? Remember the VOLT right..remember the radical styling right? NOW remember it looked like a plain old cruze when it was manufactured. If that isn't a clue I can't help you. The proof is always in the sales and the public acceptance by the numbers. Thats is all that counts...

 

I'm not getting you. I didn't think the volt had radical styling. I do think the gen II volt is much improved when it comes to range and efficiency as well as nvh. They did a great job.

I was comparing it to the radical future of the mirai. You know the type of radical fuel cell vehicle Tim Young in the OP post -
Why America Must Build the Car That Overtakes a Tesla | Tim Young

In 2015 this future vehicle was forecast to sell a scant 200 vehicles. Because the magic infrastrstructure people are pretending doesn't cost anything and is easy people delayed delveries and only 72 were leased. woo pee. If the mirai can't even meet easy forecasts let alone the 2114 volts sold in december alone how in the world is it going to beat the tesla. Now that the X is done the model III is comeing, along with the gen II leaf and bolt.

The volt is what it is, nothing more nothing less, but with the mirai much more heavily subsidized, it can't compete. That is what the thread is about. DOes american need to follow toyota down the 10,000 psi/ non-plug in fuel cell market after gm and ford decided plug-ins are more likely, and tesla proved that you could sell a lot. Tesla last year sold over 50,000 bevs, being number one in the world for november and decmber. In the next 5 years it is highly unlikely that all the fcv makers will sell that many world wide.

I think you don't understand my position.

How is 72 a great sales number for a year and the future, when a limited roll out in one month of the volt was is a failure in your opinion.

The numbers are what they are, but treat them the same. DOn't pretend fcv sales are high or ineveitable, if you find much higher plug-in sales a disapointment and proof of something,. Where is the public acceptance of the fcv?