Next Gen PiP2 Mystery

i haven't seen it, thanks! not much there but the same old questions. interesting how they say it hit the low water mark, but is 3rd overall in the world.

 

As I've said, to get me to buy a newer PIP, it would have to get about 20 EV miles on hills/high-speed roads, and allow me to go 70 without the ICE starting.

 

why?

20 miles at 70 mph ain't gonna happen, not even on flat roads.

 

If the gen 4 goes 70 MPH on electric, then the PiP certainly will. I think that's a reasonable cutoff speed, and was thinking even 65 MPH would be nice. I rarely go much above 70 on Oregon's slow freeways. Above that you want to be burning fuel considering how quickly you will go through kWh.

The PiP should be the same platform as the liftback, otherwise it would be designated as a separate car model. Lack of a spare tire should be the only compromise, with a rear deck that is level when the rear seats are folded flat. I would guess 18-20 mile range, which I find to be the sweet spot for this vehicle. If more range is needed on a regular basis, the Volt is a better option.

I'm not a fan of wireless charging due to the reduced charging efficiency, but I do see how it could benefit some people who cannot easily access a charging cable. It should be an option rather than standard feature since so few would actually use it, and the expense is non-trivial.

 

are we talking epa miles, and will it test the same as the current pip? i'm still confused as to epa testing.

i believe the gen IV was built with the pip in mind, but it was not likely a priority, as toyota doesn't see it as a viable product to compete with lift back numbers. i'm just happy they haven't dropped it altogether.

 

When I give a range estimate, it is according to EPA certified ratings. I expect many on here will get better than 20 miles on a charge, as I already get 15 in the summer.

The EPA rates the PiP to something silly like 3 miles of range before the gas engine starts because their standardized testing method requires hard enough acceleration at the 3 mile point. Pressing the throttle to far activates the gas engine. PiP v2 will either need a higher threshold of power until the gas engine kicks on, or a true EV mode that locks out the gas engine no matter how hard the skinny pedal is pressed.

I too am pleased to see Toyota committing to the next iteration of the PiP despite the fact that it doesn't generate revenue for them. It will be a stepping stone for them to create extended range EVs and eventually a dedicated EV.

 

I can get 10 miles at 60 mph. All they have to do is double the battery pack plus a bit more, say 10kWh. You don't think that's going to happen? Yeah me neither, that's why I don't think I will be purchasing PiP2.

 

i suspect the drain from 60-70 mph is more than incremental, but i could be wrong.

i am expecting a 50% increase in epa range, from 11 to 16.5, but possibly more. 20 tops.

 

epa is 11. there is something in the fine print about the engine coming on at 6, but i don't know if toyota is concerned with that or not. they may feel the ice is needed in certain power situation, but with a larger battery and more powerful motor, they may not.

 

Forgive me, I've done almost no research on the Gen4 yet....

So in the new Gen4 that will come out you will be able to pulse and glide all the way up to 70 mph?

 

Tideland- What is your source for the 70 MPH limit in EV mode?

Toyota literature says the EV powertrain is 20% more efficient, which means the battery doesn't have to grow in size as much to achieve greater range.

 

Toyota was (and arguably still is) the leader in hybrids, now it is late to the party with PHEVs and BEVs.

If Toyota made a PiP that was specially designed with 25kWh to 30kWh of battery and a few gallons of petrol (ala BMW i3-REX) but with Toyota reliability and Prius comfort, technology and PSD for when you are in hybrid mode instead of EV only it would be a killer. It would not be a competitor to the "normal" Prius, it would be a different class. An EV with an engine, not an ICE vehicle with a battery. I expect it would cost about $50K retail in the lower volumes so maybe the Lexus brand would need to be slapped on it.

100 real world mid-speed highway miles plus an engine at 50mpg and 4+ gallons gets you the magic "300" number that everyone wants for no particular reason. 99% of the driving would be done on EV only. The engine and petrol would be carried around for emergencies and "peace of mind".

And just in case I will mention I own multiple Toyota/Lexus hybrids (multiple Prii), and a Leaf as well as a subset of our collection.

 

and it would sell a pittance, like all the other cars in this class. they're not interested.

 

this is the next gen pip thread people, let's keep it on point!

 

Hybrids also didn't sell well until Toyota changed the game. That's the point. Why are they now following where sales already are (and aren't) versus making a new market like they did with the Prius. Everything is a "Prius-killer" because they invented the market. Tesla has taken the top end BEV category and things have to be "Tesla-killers" now. Nobody has a good PHEV yet even though a few have tried.

 

probably for the reason you stated. too expensive, would need lexus badge, wouldn't sell many.