New Commercial. Who Wants To Drift?

yeah, we all see it differently. some are just more offended than others.

 

Tesla says two journalists entered its top-secret battery factory and attacked guards - Telegraph

This article claims it will lower cost up to 30%. I still think that people will not be happy when their 20k$ worth, 10 year old Tesla will need 10k+ dollars of investment. Not to mention all the cost from repairs since they seem to break down quite a bit.

People are kinda outraged currently because Tesla wants 29,000usd for a roadster battery, when you can buy that car in 40s used.
I therefore agree with Toyota on their policy. Even with high gas prices in Europe you could buy enough gas for 200,000miles for that roadster battery, and not to mention you still have to put electricity in electric cars - about 35kwh of it over 100 miles.

 

Li-ion batteries for cars have been dropping in cost on the order of 7% to 14% per year since the Leaf and Volt first came out, and there is nor reason for that to stop with the Gigafactory starting up. Tesla and GM are both going to be paying under $200 a kWh for the traction pack in their next BEV.

Considering the range of the Model S, and the amount of miles it is likely driven on a daily basis, the batteries aren't seeing deep discharges unless the owner only plugs in every few days. The only plug in with reported battery issues has been the Leaf in hot climates. Tesla uses a better cooling system.

Then when the time does come to replace the battery in a Tesla, or any other plug in, the old pack isn't trash. It will still have usable life for other purposes. So the owner will get a credit on it to apply to the new or refurbished pack.

 

I am under the impression that the AWD version will be for the Japanese Domestic Market only.

 

There is some talk that it will be available in Europe too.

 

It's still early days and we're still on the first generation BEVs, effectively the equivalent of the gen1 Prius - which had its faults.

The Leaf and Tesla's will require new batteries, but the cost of these are falling and more than made up for in fuel savings and that's not taking into account any requirements for zero emission vehicles as taxi's etc. The talk is heading that way here.

A taxi company in the UK has got a Leaf with 130k miles on it which has just dropped it's first capacity bar. That bodes well for long life. Even if replacement is needed, the whole pack doesn't need to be changed, and even if it did, it's only about £5k or the cost of a transmission. BEVs just need a longer range of 200 miles and then they'll sell. A taxi won't mind 150 miles in exchange for a cheap 30 minute top up charge.


Not the best picture, but on the right below PS is the battery capacity level which is missing one bar.

Visited the Sunderland Battery plant yesterday.... | Page 2 | Speak EV - Electric Car Forums

 

Why not compare a Roadster battery against another £100,000 car engine? You've done a Jeremy Clarkson. You're comparing apples and oranges. The Roadster is the earliest mainstream EV on the roads with a labour intensive battery arrangement. Of course it will cost $thousands to replace. How about comparing the cost of normal EV batteries, which whilst still expensive, aren't too far out the cost of a transmission. What would the fuel costs of 100k miles be in Europe? More than enough to buy a new BEV battery for sure.

I agree BEVs aren't quite there yet, and a 200 mile real world range is needed for mass adoption. But it's not far away. Comparing limited edition sports cars against the mass market Prius is pushing comparisons a little.

 

Nah, just wanted to point out that most people I talked with in real life are saying they will never buy hybrid because battery is too expensive to replace, I just wondered how well changing a more expensive battery would go with those people.

As for cost:

HYBRID (Prius, Auris, Yars, etc.)
Consumption: 4.1l/100km
Fuel cost (Gasoline prices around the world, 14-Dec-2015 | GlobalPetrolPrices.com)

Germany: Cost per 100km ( 1.41$ / liter * 4.1l/100km) =
= 5,78$ / 100km
US: Cost per 100km ( 0.61$ / liter * 4.1l/100km) =
= 2,5$ / 100km


ELECTRIC (Leaf / Tesla / etc. - very similar figures for consumption under normal driving)
Consumption: 22kWh/100km
Electricity cost (Average electricity prices around the world: $/kWh | OVO Energy)

Germany: Cost per 100km (0.35$ / kWh * 22kWh/100km) =
= 7.7$ / 100km
US: Cost per 100km (0.12$ / kWh * 22kWh/100km) =
= 2,64$ / 100km

I'm all for electric vehicles and developing any new technology, but at the moment those are more for enthusiasts than for those that need transport from A to B. Correct me if figures are wrong.
Both consumption figures are ones that are declared for the respective vehicles.

 

And then you have tax benefits to BEVs and PHEVs, such as in Norway where they waive the 20%vat/sales tax on new BEVs, or the free parking, or the free electricity to charge up. Then the issues with low emission zones and access to cities,or free parking for BEVs.

And then there's the clean city air benefit of a BEV. I suppose you might choose to quote the emissions from dirty German coal powered power stations, but you could use the 98% nuclear electrcity in France or 100% hydro in Norway, or even the 20% coal in the UK, all of which clean up emissions overall.

It's not just the cost of electricity vs petrol, though I notice you chose Germany electricity prices at $0.35 rather than a UK option about $0.13 night time or $0.22 (15p kwh) peak rate that I pay - using 100% renewable electricity. Check Our Prices - For Your Home - Ecotricity (Try London postcode N1 2AA to test the pricing)

Clarkson always liked to misquote things. I remember he used to quote the Prius as only getting 40mpg, when everyone knew it got at least 50 mpg UK. Oh, he was using the smaller US gallons in his UK article. He wasn't lying that the Prius got 40mpg, it was just not a unit actually used in the UK when quoting to a UK tv audience. Bit of clever misquoting just like using German electric costs which are some of the highest in Europe, or not using the cheap rate overnight tariffs which most people use when charging an EV. Or even the FREE electricity available in many rapid chargers. Our Electric Highway - For The Road - Ecotricity I look forward to the day Shell provide free petrol.

 

Canadian car dealerships like to quote mpg in imperial gallons. We haven't used 'em for what, 40 years, but hey...

 

Hey, not hating. I actually disliked Clarkson very much just for that reason. I did compare only for Germany and US up there, but just to show that there is no perfect solution about what car is the best under what circumstance. I was oggling Tesla Roadsters even before I realised Prius existed as a car (that was about 2012, yeah they are that rare here in Croatia), looking up electric VW Beetle conversions and stuff.

Sorry I didn't count in the incentives, they are pretty small in my country (30$ a year less eco tax for hybrids) and I didn't realise they were that big in some countries. I guess I wanted to point out that TEVs might not be for everyone at the moment, or for every country at that. Especially if you have to travel from e.g. Greece to Croatia with no superchargers in between, you would spend quite some time to get there
Tesla Store, Service Centers and Chargers
But it's great that they are putting stations up, hopefully in a few years time they will cover Europe adequately.

 

And yeah, we kinda got off-topic here

 

although you'd never know it by driving around LAX.
.

 

link? . . . . . for one thing - where are all these Roadster owners clamoring to buy new traction packs? Remember - Tesla began production of the Roadster some EIGHT YEARS AGO. Despite that;

Tesla Roadster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So - after you absorb the notion that pack replacement simply ain't happening yet - we can grasp other equally important points that fly in the face of the FUD you're flinging.
Also from that same read, relating to pack replacement cost, you can see;

But as they say in those, "Ron-Co" commercials, "but wait-there's more!"
Unlike the manufacturer of YOUR car, Tesla has NOT abandoned its early adapters ... No ... you see, the Roadster originally EPA'ed a range of ~ 250+ miles .... but Tesla will NOW offer up a FOUR HUNDRED mile setup .... that is, whenever the packs capacity/range diminishes to the point that owners need to re-up their range. Unlike an ICE vehicle, the EV simply goes less far before refuelling ... so in the case of the Roadster - instead of refuelling at say 230 miles ... you'd re-fuell at 180 or 200 miles. Whoopdedoo.
Lastly, & the most important point blatanly missed - compare how short Tesla has been in business - to say for instance when Henry Ford started cranking out model T's & model A's. The auto industry went for over ½ century with at best a 12,000 mile warranty. Now, do you really want to whine because those crummy Tesla's (highest owner satisfaction of most any car) had motor noise, & will need expensive battery replacements someday? Whatever ....

But don't fret too much over those plugins, no one's twisting your arm to buy one ... anymore than someone's twisting your arm to buy a Harley Davidson to ride during cold rainy snowy winters. Hopefully this won't come as too big a bombshell to you ... but NO vehicle serves all people - for all purposes. Yea, those silly plugin people will just have to keep re-fuelling (in many instances) for free, off their solar arrays ... never realizing how bad they have it

.

 

Well, I hope they do continue to develop that technology and that we soon get a vehicle that will cost like the average car of today (25k USD), charge fast and do at least 200 miles. And ofc have the ability to charge at the stations like current cars. I would buy car like that.

 

I don't think it's far off. The Leaf now has a 30kwh battery which gives a bit more range, but clearly not the 200 miles required. But the costs add up as viable at this stage. If the Leaf battery is 30 kwh and costs £5k/$5k, then double and the car cost increases by £5k/$5k or a car costing £30k/$30k.

I imagine the issues now are weight rather than costs, but it's only 5 years since the Leaf was released.

 

Nah, sounds nice that somebody is at least doing stuff in EV world, but really, it took them long enough If only VW, Audi and rest of European manufacturers did anything about it it would be nice. They are just spawning more and more of same TDI stuff (soon with triple clutch ). More production means less cost

 

I got to wondering what other eco friendly cars have gone & done the whole drift thing. Found this;

I note there seems to be a whole lot more smoke on the asphalt in that vid. Of course, this wasn't done by nor approve by the manufacturer ~

.

 

Bet that hurts range. Also, give that cameraman a gas mask.

 

Has anyone priced tires lately.