4th Gen PiP?

i'm just trying to figure this out: we have a whole new chassis/body. they move the battery under the seat, but with a spare tyre, the deck is the same height as before. the extra space is taken up by the new rear suspension. where is more battery going to go?

no e-four, electric cabin heater or more range, what will the gen IV pip get?

 

I think it's less than that. People are seeing ~3kWh from the plug, which would be ~2.7kWh assuming 90% charger efficiency.

Electric battery degradation | Page 5 | PriusChat

The current pack is also ~10ft^3, so an extra ~7ft^3 should allow for an extra ~4+kWh of usable capacity. Going from a usable ~2.7kWh to ~6.7kwh alone would bump range from ~11 miles to `~27 miles. Efficiency improvements would probably push the car over ~30 miles.

https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/staticcontent/en/techinfo/html/prelogin/docs/priusphvdisman.pdf

That's assuming Toyota keeps the cargo volume of the gen-iii and gen-iv pip the same. If cargo capacity for the new pips is the same as the new nimh models, there would need to be increases in energy density to get the car to ~30 miles.

 

I've seen it talked about in other threads extensively. I understand people have optimism about the range of the next gen PiP and want it to exceed other vehicles on the market, but it simply isn't going to happen. Even if Toyota can fit a gigawatt hour battery, they won't do it for cost reasons. Most PiP buyers wouldn't want to pay the added cost of having a 30+ mile EV range. Why would Toyota more than double the range? How often do manufacturers more than double anything? I find it more reasonable that Toyota would increase the PiP range by a similar percentage as Chevy increased the new Volt. Chevy's significant range increase was 40%. A similar range increase for the PiP would be about 15 miles.

There is almost no way the next gen Toyota will have more than 25 miles of range, and more probably 15-20.

 

there are no nigh /pip models.

agreed, i thought you were referring to the thread you posted in.

 

Do we have some pictures of under the cargo deck to compare Gen 3 and Gen 4 Liftbacks? That should give a decent idea, no?

 

Not sure why people keep saying the PiP was sold for such a huge premium compared to the regular Gen3. Maybe at the very beginning it did. But since 2013 many of us paid less for the PiP than a comparably equipped regular Gen3.

 

That forward slash should be an and. But yeah, if toyota keeps the same 24+ft^3 for the new pip that they have with the NiMH version, there won't be as much room for a larger battery.

I think it's a possibility. Shoot, they may even have different battery sizes in the pip. Probably not, but it's a possibility. I imagine it depends on a bunch of things (battery costs, how well the competition is doing, battery durability in the current pip, etc...)

An "industry insider" supposedly put range on the new pip at ~30-35 miles.

Next Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid To Have 30 To 35 Miles Of Range: Source

I don't think that's 30-35 miles on the EPA rating, but I could see going from ~16 miles on the JC08 to ~30-35 miles on the JC08, which would translate to ~20+ miles on the EPA rating and ~25+ miles real world (for me anyhow).

Toyota Prius - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

That would be the very best, like Tesla is doing.

 

agreed, it would be cool, but unlikely. even volt and leaf are not doing it yet.

 

Yes, unlikely but Nissan is finally offering a second battery capacity. 2016 Leaf SV and SL have 30 kWh battery, while the S remains at 24 kWh (capacity of all 2011-2015 Leafs): Nissan announces U.S. pricing for 2016 LEAF - Nissan - Nissan Online Newsroom.

 

I also heard 35 miles of range but I suspect that's the Japanese test cycle so more like 23 miles frm EPA test cycle. On the cutout they had at the LA Auto Show the battery on the liftback was under the rear seat and theaux battery had been moved up front under the hood. Given the improvement in energy density I think an EPA rating of 23 miles is quite doable without encroaching on rear hatch space

 

that's hard to say without any battery physical size facts. perhaps someone knows the lift back lithium dimensions, kWh and weight, and we can extrapolate. 23 miles would be more than double. i can see 16-18. the question is, where is the space in that cutout? i hope you're right!

 

There was quiet a bit of space under the rear seat but it is hard to say about the battery size as power densities have been increasing quit a bit since the current PIP was designed so I very much doubt that Toyota will use the same modules as the current model

 

That was in the dismantling guide I linked to earlier.

HV Battery Assembly
Battery assembly voltage
207.2 V
Number of Li-ion battery cells in the battery
56 cells
Li-ion battery cell voltage
3.7 V
Li-ion battery cell dimensions
4.13 x 5.83 x 1.04 in.
(105 x 148 x 27 mm)
Li-ion cell weight
1.60 lbs (726 g)
Li-ion battery assembly dimensions
29.4 x 37.3 x 6.9 in.
(747 x 948 x 176 mm)
Li-ion battery assembly weight
168 lbs (76 kg)

 

how many kWh? tough to figure without that. for example, if we think the car can go 2 miles on battery, you would need 12 to go 24 miles, but that would probably only be 16 on the epa. to get 23 on the epa, you might need 16 lift back batteries. but wait, only a percentage of that battery is being used, so that throws the whole calculation off. we really need kWh.

 

4.4kWh. Only ~2.7kWh are usable based on how much energy people are using when charging, but I think any additional capacity would be usable capacity because we already have a little less than 2kWh of capacity used as a buffer.

 

Usable battery capacity window in present PiP is ~62%.
It seems that the new Lion battery for Gen4 has ~70% usable window.
A new 7 kWh battery may have, say, ~72% usable capacity or 5 kWh which is 87% increase from current PiP battery, i.e. 87% increase in EV range.
A new 7 kWh battery will have 60% increase in volume from current 4.4 kWh one, probably less taking into account possible new technology compacting.
I do not see any place for a 7-7.5 kWh battery but the trunk, hope they can make it with minimum raising of deck to only be flush with hatch opening.

 

current 11 miles X 1.87 = 20.57?

if i get 16 in good weather, that would equate to about 30 miles?

 

Yes, 46-48 km for me in a good weather