Featured 2016 Chevy Volt Attack Ads target LEAF, Prius!

Amazing, the right tool for the right job.

Bob Wilson

 

maybe you could elaborate on what you're getting at? Are you saying that because some innovations don't become the standard that they're not worth considering? I immediately think of sailing. We now use fuel oil/gas turbine ships to transport cargo. Even so, there are hundreds of millions of sailboats. In other words, just because everyone doesn't have a type of technology doesn't mean that it's still not a great mode.

if i might be so brash as to assume what USB might say (humor regarging his passionate hydrogen stance) about the ad; "FC cars can do hydro too ... ok-so it might take 2x-4x the electricity...."

As for the video - yes, Toyota too, in light of their Raggedy Ann doll made of humans video ... they too could take an advertising lesson as well. Oh wait a minute never mind. That would make plugins look great and that doesn't seem to be Toyota's objective at the moment.

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The ad said or implied that because it is new technology it is better.

I am saying that that is not always the case. There are plenty of examples of new technology being sold in things that aren't better and/or consumers just don't want.

Mike

 

Oh - i see.

When i saw this ad - folks stuck in elevator - being compared to running out of fuel, the ads' message seemed to be directed at the irrational & ignorant. Who starts out on a journey without certainty of being able to make it in the necessary time frame and/or availability of refueling. One can run out of gasoline or you can run out of electrons. Doing either is the same ... poor planning. But virtually no one gets stuck in an elevator by their own doing. That's typically a result of outside forces.

 

Lithium versus Nimh? Yep Lithium chemistries are better, that is why everyone but toyota is using Lithium. How is it better?

kwh/kg, kwh/l, higher percentage usable charge, and if you average likely prices over the next 5 years lithium is likely less expensive/kwh. Control hardware is more expensive but this falls following moore's law. Toyota has a large investment in Nimh and is risk adverse about possible higher warranty costs. I look forward to see which of the gen IV prius models use lithium and which use nimh. Hopefully toyota will announce this soon.

Well if you don't like new technology, you are not going to buy a plug-in car like the volt. That really is not a problem. I agree many corolla and camry buyers would rather buy old proven tech than new higher performance tech, but .... that is not the volts market. Most of those buyers don't even want to pay for the hybrid in the prius or camry hybrid, because things can go wrong.

The problem with the spot, is exactly that. The initial adopters in the market currently driving camry and corola (cruze and mailibu) is what they should be targeting. (camry and bmw 3 were big trade ins in the first gen). Its a muddled message. The prius has electric boost, regen braking, etc, its a lot more tech than many of the other cars, and it has a tiny market share.

Bad ad, not that new tech is a bad idea, but the comparison to the prius is confused and not effective.

 

Good question, since no automaker has rolled out anything without patent restrictions.... which just expired.

In other words, it's inappropriate to draw a conclusion yet.

 

they both have their advantages and disadvantages.

 

I'm sure steam powered cars have some advantages too.

The reality is Toyota should only be praised for engineering an outstanding NiMh battery. A huge amount of Li-Ion success in cars is a direct result of Toyota pioneering a lot of vehicle battery basics with NiMh first. But Li-Ion has reached the maturity and reliability levels needed to displace NiMh and Toyota realizes this. The problem with Toyota is they don't realize how successful they could be advancing PHEVs.

 

Ford was buying the sanyo, then panasonic bought sanyo, and was buying the same general batteries from panasonic as toyota uses. Honda the same, but honda used worse control logic managing the batteries. Both have switched to lithium, ford using the same lithium as in the prius phv and the toyota alpha (two different chemistries). Toyota tells us these chemistries are extremely reliable. They are more expensive than the lg and tesla/panasonic liquid conditioned batteries, but for small packs they should do great. The leaks say toyota will offer a lithium option in the gen IV.

Do you use nimh in your phone or laptop? No of course not. Then again the size and weight of these batteries are more important than the size of the prius or camry battery. The camry because of better packaging, puts the bigger heavier battery in the car, and has more trunk room then the not as well packaged ford fusion hybrid. The lithium advantages are there, but they just aren't that important in the prius or camry hybrid.

Which is why that internet ad is so bad. The advantage of the tech, really doesn't matter in the prius.

FUD is the only advantage of NIMH. That and a slightly less expensive control electronics package to run it in a car. Size, weight and even price should favor lithium in a new car design.

 

Sighting the past and not acknowledging what's different now. Typical.

 

I don't understand this. Can you name one way that nimh is better than lithium batteries.

 

None have been rolled out yet. You have to wait. The large form-factor is on the way.

Better is a loose term too, since it depends upon use.

 

the gen IV prius will be available with nimh or lion. it will be very interesting to see the price, performance and longevity differences.

 

you say so, but toyota seems to believe differently.

 

Think about it. Why would Toyota not continue rollout plans of their mid-cycle update? Having developed a worthy next-gen in the meantime would be good reason.

 

We will see what they say when they finally roll out the information on the gen IV. All the official anouncements had the dealers like nimh, and toyota would have both. They also said no nimh production in North America, that would be lithium, or batteries shipped from asia.

I don't know what the issue is. BASF says NIMH is better, not toyota partner panasonic. BASF NIMH has no design wins.

 

really? could have sworn they officially stated option of either.

 

Maybe the Li-Ion is in the Pip, like it is now.

 

Roll out plans of what? Prius or PiP?

 

PiP. Some don't like the fact that flexibility in the approach was taken advantage of... since waiting wasn't an option for GM. Toyota simply focused diversity (the C, V, and 7 models of Prius) as well as continued expansion (RAV4). We all would have like more PiP, but it wasn't the best business choice. So, they delayed.