Gen4, is it worth it?

I think the changes between gen 3 and gen 4 are far more substantial than the changes between gen 2 and gen 3. I have a gen 2 and went and test drove a gen 3 and looked it over quite carefully (including with a tape measure) and frankly, the differences were very minor. Not that that's a bad thing as I think the gen 2 is the best car I've ever owned or driven.

The gen 4 has much more substantial changes:

• 4WD option.
• Independent rear suspension.
• Much more aggressive styling.
• Lack of underfloor storage in the cargo area.
  
• Non-flat cargo area in some versions.
• Front seats don't fold flat with rear seats when folded down.
  
• Battery under rear seat.
• No upper glove box.
• Three spoke instead of four spoke steering wheel (matters a lot if you are used to putting your hand on the bottom of the wheel in open-road long-distance cruising).
• Even fewer controls on the steering wheel.
• LED headlights standard.

These matter to me a lot more than any of the relative trivia you posted in the original post. Toyota has said it will be faster and more responsive both to throttle and steering. A 5-10% increase in mileage isn't "marginal at best" to me, it's hundreds of gallons of gasoline not burned over the life of the vehicle. It's not ugly at all and, in fact, I'm warming up to the looks the more I look at it. It's certainly more attractive than any of the previous three generations to me, even though I don't actually care about such things.

 

Does anyone know of packages/options for this car yet? Is there a clear video of the dash? I didn't see any cigarette charger outlets. Does anyone know when we will get more information? Is it stil set to be on lots in January?


I'm hoping this gen has:

-dual zone climent with rear vents

-blind spot monitoring/other driver safety features

-four door smart access

-a household outlet (if not, more than one cigarette lighter outlet on the dash)

-maybe AWD was always far fetched but would've been nice.

-solar roof package from previous generation

-quitter ride

 

Here's my take. Our Gen II has 155K miles on it. I know many Prius cars last much longer and I still have the option to keep it a while longer. But we rack up 22K miles per year and I'm not one to put up with a car that begins to have problems. So I'm ready to buy a new car now.

We've been happy with the Gen II. If I could buy a brand new Gen II I would. I looked at the Gen III but couldn't live with the flying buttress console so we skipped that year.

As long as there isn't anything that is a big problem for me we'll buy a Gen IV. From what I've been able to gather so far it looks like the Gen IV won't contain any killers for me.

The flying buttress is gone.
It looks like I can buy one without the bathroom fixtures.
It looks like I can buy one with a spare, or at least the spare will be an option.

Things I like about the Gen IV
- I can buy one with zero miles on it.
- heated seats (my wife like this)
- HUD (to compensate for stupid instrument design)
- I think it has more cargo space than the Gen II
- 10% mpg improvement over Gen III (I don't care how they did it)
- 12V outlet for rear seat
- the flying buttress is gone

Things I don't care to much about
- how much it weighs
- whether it has a bigger or smaller ICE or HV battery
- what it looks like outside
- if it has a wireless smartphone charger
- new seat designs
- if it handles better than the Gen II
- if it accelerates better than the Gen II

Things that irritate me but won't likely keep me from buying one
- I think the center console is ugly
- the position of the shift lever because I am concerned about safety. I'm afraid of the car going into neutral (or worse reverse) because something bumps the lever, like a purse. The Gen II shift lever is more practical.
- I hate that Toyota puts instruments toward the center of the dash
- loss of storage cubbies and the glove compartment changes
- 12V outlet moved outside the arm rest storage. If rather have it inside like Gen II
- no 12V outlet under the dash (for my GPS)
- a more laid back seating position. But this could become a big issue
- a more difficult ingress and egress. But this could become a big issue

A tight turning radius is very important to us. I hope they didn't screw that up. At least once a month my wife or I mention how nice it is that our Prius has such a tight turning radius. Usually it's when we pull into a parking slot in a store parking lot.

For me the Gen II is close to perfection. Gen IV, in some ways, is a step backwards. It looks like we can live with it, but there really isn't a lot to attract us, and some of the changes have the potential to drive us away.

 

AS of right now I accept the staff manual as the most probable facts, with no credible indications otherwise.

If I didn't already have a 3rd-gen, then, yes... there is no question I would opt for a 4th-gen if I were in the market for a Prius.

As of right now I believe that the optimization of the HSD will offset the reduction in the rated output of the engine and MG2. I believe it will feel a little torque-ier, since as we all know the "Prius jump" at the stoplight is due to the instantaneous torque of the MG2. Now we have one less gear interface for that power to travel through.

The 60% (?) improvement in body rigidity would be welcome as well, esp. since I recently spent $400 bracing up the 3rd-gen.

The lowering of the CG by moving the battery below the rear seat is nothing but a good thing. All handling woes come from mass (paraphrased from Colin Chapman), but all woes are exacerbated with a high CG.

The IRS is definitely nice to have and can potentially make the car better-behaved in bumps... but people have been doing amazing things with torsion beams and *gasp* live axles for forever now. So it's a thumbs up, but not a game-maker.

I am not a fan of the styling, but now that I keep looking at it, it is no worse than the prior-gen Toyota Celica. It tries too hard. But it isn't any uglier than any prior-gen Prius.

Couple all that with greater gas mileage, interior volume, and 6-more-years of technology... I think it's a no-brainer between the 3rd and 4th-gens... if you were starting fresh, and necessarily looking at a Prius.

But if you had a 3rd-gen, the 4th-gen is only an incremental improvement. I don't feel motivated at all to "upgrade".

The question is, though... how will the 4th-gen fare against all the new competitors coming onto the scene?

 

Good question! Can you name the competitors coming onto the scene?

 

This really doesn't dignify a response, but I'll humor you for a few more sentences.

The 2016 Chevy Volt is the most obvious competitor people cross-shopping the 4th-gen Prius might also look at. It's not a perfect segment match, but nobody shops like that... except for a fanboy trying to assert superiority in a narrow slot.

The upcoming Hyundai Prius competitor looks to be a pretty direct shot across Toyota's bow.

Spied: 2017 Hyundai Hybrid Electric Vehicle – News – Car and Driver

 

Insight has gone...
Volt is a PHEV, will be competition for next PiP...but currently is no competition for the HV 4Gen Prius (and GM stopped marketing outside USA)...
Hyundai still one year away, and Hyundai has only 4 years sales history of hybrid cars...

So the answer to your question is?...

 

Could be that the priorities put in front of the designers were: Japan/Europe...USA?
Japan: this is obvious - to maintain dominance.
Europe: to penetrate. Will possibly require price reduction in Europe. The timing (by luck) is good due to the recent diesel flop and the change in attitude (at least start of) towards diesels in Europe. Gasoline prices drop is much less in Europe due to the high taxes.
Just a thought.
On the other hand, success in Europe will be partially on the expence of Auris.

 

Toyota already penetrated Europe with the hybridization of Auris and Yaris. Prius selling numbers are marginal now, it's priced too high and Toyota Europe surely prefers to sell vehicles built in their own plants.

 

An attack in two arrowheads is better than in one...would probably require a price adjustment of the Auris HSD.

 

Any car that is not built in EU will have price penalty, nothing indicates that Prius will be built in EU. Even Tesla assembles their Model S in Netherlands for the very same reason.

 

"The Hyundai isn't a Prius competitor because it uses 4 lug nuts per wheel (and not 5), showing that it is obviously a lighter-duty vehicle!"

Yeah, I pretty much knew the sort of nonsense you'd be going for.

 

Let's make it fair. I've never tried to go nonsense or against your idea. It's your opinion, I respect that. I argued the opposite because it is fairly known that Prius has no competition.

If you cannot keep an open mind or be challenged, try writing in Portuguese so that we can discuss evenly.

 

That Prius has no close competitors is an argument, but not a compelling one, at least not to me. I can always walk away, go back to an econobox. It's frustrating, but it's beginning to be an option, in my mind.

When I look at the 4th gen, I'm starting to get a glimmer, of the forces that shaped the car. Not the ones Toyota touts in their press releases. Instead, factors like lagging sales, a mature product, maybe a demanding management, and relentless money restraints...

Then what I see starts to make sense.

 

If there's a 50+mpg lift back with as much storage as the Prius, I'm not aware of it.

 

I read pro and con lists by several members in this thread and what do I miss:
With Toyota Safety Sense package the G4 will be much safer to drive.

 

You really should've stopped right there. To continue is to say "flame on." Rest assured, I like many will be cross shopping the Volt, Prius, Leaf, Cmax, and whatever new when it comes time to replace my PiP same as I did in 2012. Just leave it at that. This is Priuschat, you're not going to convince anyone.

 

this has all been covered in the 4 billion posts on gen IV threads.

 

I'll be cross-shopping the new gen 4 against a used gen 3, and likely nothing else.

 

Fine. Leave the snarky emoticons out of it.

As I anticipated in the very first response to you, the only way you can consider the Prius to be free from competition is if you define the segment specifically and narrowly, and not as any shopper would actually shop. It's certainly not how I would shop, and as evidenced, not as how Mendel Leisk and mmmodem would shop. If you define a segment specific and narrow enough, even the Honda Accord is not a competitor for the Toyota Camry, which would be just nonsense.

Most people who are considering the Prius have extremely high fuel economy in an affordable and high-utility package as the defining characteristics of what they're looking for. This actually encompasses more than just the Volt and upcoming Hyundai hybrid, as evidenced in the varied makes and models covered in the "Other Cars" section of this website. Those are cars that are of interest to Prius owners.

I do suspect that you remain unconvinced. So I will leave you to your beliefs. The Prius can remain the only option in your mind.