Panasonic moves closer to home energy self-sufficiency with fuel cells

I take it the batteries are cheaper for running a few reading lights, and for power other lights just in case instead of running a gen 24/7. Solar has dropped in price, so that it might be cost competitive with a generator now.

Then Volvo's diesel fuel cell generator may be an option in the not to distance future.

 

I found a link to Panasonic's offering on gizmag;
Panasonic reduces size and price of “Ene-Farm” home fuel cell
$20k seems like a lot of dough just to turn natural gas into 750w of electricity. And yikes, look at the size of that thing - even the newer one. I wonder how long it would take to charge (for example) 12kWh's worth of backup batteries at 750W - presuming no more than 5% loss ... & no more than say 300 watts (for example) all night, for clocks, midums, cable boxes, the fridge, etc. One would have to be able to pick up batteries at a really great price. Tesla' s power wall is going to be available shortly, but I haven't yet seen what its going to go for per kilowatt hour
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The fuel cell also has a life of about 7 years.

 

I tried to separate the two, or really 3 off grid.

1) People where its expensive to get on grid. solar plus diesel generator plus batteries, but you don't need to charge a couple of tesla model S's from full to empty over night ;-)

2) The awesome possum servivalists, who may even have a grid connection just in case, but they don't trust the electric company of the government. Definitely don't want that tesla but maybe an outlander phev or a cng pick up truck that can be fueled from that biodigester.

3) the environmentalist that could be on grid but want to be off grid no matter what it costs. The Ed Bagley jr types and followers. They might indeed have that tesla ;-) It would be cheaper to be on grid, but they have emotional resons to spend their money on extra stuff so they can claim they are greener.

I was talking about group 3. I don't think group 1 or 2 buy that tesla or mirai, but they likely would like solar pv and batteries, and maybe even that panasonic system if it became cheap enough.

 

This thread is about new product research that won't likely hit the market until 2020. We have heard breakthrough here before from a start up from MIT in 2010 with Indian venture capitalists for helping poor people off grid. The company was bought when it really cost a lot for the hydrogen cost too much ($7/kg), but a defense contractor has deep pockets. I expect someone will figure it out and it could be panasonic, but the key is how much it ends up costing per kg of hydrogen. If its over $5/kg then its too expensive.

 

This.

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Having just done these calculations, grid tied solar runs around $3 per peak watt installed. Batteries are the replacement for a generator, not solar. Depending on your sun, 1-3 kWh per year from a peak watt of solar PV. Panels are between 250-300 Watts apiece. If you have a Tesla you need LESS batteries than without (though it and your power source need to be present at the same time).

 

Thanks for updated prices for installed solar. I guess I was a little high. On the tesla i was assuming we were talking the bragging rights scenario, where the tesla would be at work during good solar hours 5 days a week, and often gone on the weekend for trips. YMMV. That tesla scenario works great for grid tied, as the fossil fuel offset during the day, can be used at night to charge the car. That still gives you 0 net fossil use if your system is large enough. It makes you add extra batteries or, gasp, use a generator in the off grid application. Still if you are off grid because its hard to get on, and don't mind charging the car off the grid at work or in town, then no problem. Outlander phev may be a good match for off grid because it has car2home, 1.5 KW power take off, 1 day off battery, 10 days off gasoline.

 

I don't want to go 100% renewable. I want to lower the pollution and GHG emissions from the grid. Grid tied home solar and renewables that can't be home installed will do that faster than the few people that can afford the extra cost of going off grid if they did so.

It's not $2500. It's $2500 cheaper than the out going model; which was around $100,000 for a home sized model. A natural gas power and hot water generator is in the $20,000 range, and has near the same combined efficiency. Honda makes one sized for an apartment building that uses a true Atkinson cycle engine.

 

yea, a couple years ago our clubhouse wanted a large pv system (enough roof to use 85kW's of pv) were forced to look into a natural gas / hydrogen system. Seems one of the board members had a family member in the fuel cell business. He made certain enough association members were appointed as consults to keep the association's original pv plan from going through - by trying to convince the board a FC would be better. Long story short - the result was inaction. To this day, SoCal Edison still charges our sun & sail club over $5k/month, for loads of Tier 4 electricity.
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