Guilty of manslaughter, she was texting at 85mph in Prius

Not accusing anyone, but just to vent a pet peeve of mine. Responsibility and respect go both ways.

I work at a place near a college, and I work swing shift. Which means when I leave work it's usually night,- dark.

One of my biggest pet peeve's is the number of night bicycle riders that come out with bikes with no lights, barely maybe a reflector or two, wearing dark clothes. I'm assuming a lot of these are college kids.

Listen, I don't want to injure or kill anyone. Do they realize how invisible they are? My eyes are fine, but I can't see these people until or unless they happen to be in the direct light of my headlights. It's dangerous. If you are riding at night, please employ at least some reflectors, bright clothing and a light. But especially don't go riding on a black bicycle wearing a black hoodie with dark colored pants.

Also, and I've been a cyclist. But also it often seems to me that when a cyclist get's injured or killed by a motorist or automobile often the cry is how the automobile drivers need to pay attention to all the rules and obey and respect the bike lanes and etc. OK..fine. I agree.

But my observation is that isn't often respected conversely. How many times do I see a cyclist wanting to maintain momentum and speed, simply decide to ignore the stop sign, or stop light, and drive through the sign or intersection without even slowing down?
Seems to me that often the applied philosophy of cyclists to motorists is YOU follow all the rules and look out for me, and I'll follow the rules ONLY when it's convenient for me.

Sure the several thousand pound 0-60 automobile is the potentially more damage producing machine, but responsibility is still a two way street. And I see far too many cyclists that seem to display a responsibility arrogance to their riding habits. Which endangers themselves and myself as an automobile driver.

 

Yep, arrogance and entitlement are big problems on the road...no matter how many wheels.

So a Smart Car weighs just under a ton, a 1-Ton 4x4 Diesel Duelly comes in at just over 3 tons and a smart phone weighs about 5 ozs. You do the math.

Put down the phone while driving!

 

I think using extremes on either side isn't a good example. Of course there are bad cyclist just as there are bad drivers. The common factor, they are human! It's the same person who drives or rides like an nice person is still the same nice person on either a car or bike. There's no transformation that happens when I hop or my bike or drive my car. So the same goes for the morons that drive with cell phone are the same ones morons that ride using their phones.

I completely agree..everyone is responsible for themselves.. but as I noted to ETC, it's a person on the bike making that decision just as the person on the cell phone. Another major factor is anyone can ride a bike but not everyone can be licensed to drive a car. So the level of responsibility as we have it setup in the US is the to the driver. They are suppose to be more aware of the dangers on the road just by the fact that they possess a driver's license.

Again, I do my best to respect others driver or riding. Watch out for each other as that's the only way it will work.

 

As a frequent part of support crews for major regional cycling events, one of which is nearly always full at 10,000 riders, I can verify that mobile wireless device use by bicyclists does hurt others. In one particular incident to which I responded last year, the offending (and unidentified) device user was uninjured and continued cycling away from the scene. Among the passing paceline riders into which he unexpectedly swerved and knocked down, one rider required a 911 call and ambulance transport, another rider's bike was damaged beyond immediate repair, a third rider's bike was repairable enough to get him going at the scene.

The only bicycling texter I've witnessed that looked OK was the one on the back seat of a tandem.

 

The problem is that quote starts to border on the arrogance I think many people feel comes from the cycling side of the equation. That is the idea that the motorist is more responsible than the cyclist for maintaining and following rules.

Although tangibly the laws as they exist now, are that motorists must be licensed and that cyclists as a rule do not need a license, I believe promoting the idea that the responsibility is more "to the driver" is exactly what causes problems.

We may be employing entirely different modes of transportation. But IMO as long as we are sharing the same roads, the responsibility is or should be considered equal.

No cyclist should be taking the road thinking in any way shape or form that they can afford to be less aware of the dangers of the road because they are unlicensed cyclist as opposed to a licensed driver. In fact, given that the cyclist is the one operating the mode of transportation that offers the least amount of protection in case of an accident, one could argue the responsibility and wisdom of being aware of the dangers of the road is MORE important to the cyclist.

 

Same applies to pedestrians, and yes it is by law drivers' responsibility not to kill pedestrian (at least in our state).

In the eyes of law cyclists are effectively classified as subclass of pedestrians, YMMV

 

I used to cycle quite a bit as a kid well before titanium and carbon fiber frames and gel-padded Lycra shorts, and I only know of one person today who is a serious (bi)cyclist - and he's actually a pretty good guy.
We motorcyclists Prius drivers have our ambassadors too.
My philosophy is the same for operating a motorcycle as it would be for a bicycle:
You either do not see me, or you DO see me and you''re trying to kill me.

Interestingly enough, California is widely thought to be the only state that does not prohibit lane splitting----something that is entirely different than specifically allowing this practice.
I never do it myself, but I see cyclists and some idiot motorcyclists doing it all of the time.
The thing is....sometimes you have to either lane split as a cyclists or allow traffic to stack up behind you as you pedal furiously at PSL minus thirty on some crowded afternoon US Highway....or we build more bicycle lanes.
Bicycle lanes are groovy, but somebody has to pay for them - and we're seeing all kinds of nasty funding fights between hybrid and electric owners and states with shrinking gas tax revenues.

Good times ahead!

 

I do see your point but as I've already said, everyone is responsible. Laws are setup so it protects the more venerable, pedestrian, cyclist, horses and so on. More responsibility ways on the drivers for obvious reasons. Why are there more stringent licensing for semi-truck drivers versus a car?

I think the arrogance cyclist you're referring, same can be said for all the drivers using cell phones. Whether it's a bad cyclist or bad driver, it's the person making that decision NOT because they are a cyclist or driver. My bet is if that cyclist was driving, they would make a lot of the same infractions or simply ignore the dangers of their actions. I'm not justifying that the cyclist is right for running lights, not having lights or some reflectors on during night or stop signs.

 

And just for the record. I'm all for that.

I do realize that as the operator of the much heavier, much more powerful piece of metal, the potential for damage done in a moment of lapsed concentration is disproportionately with the drivers of automobiles.

I just don't accept that reality, as a reason or excuse why responsibility for personal safety, the safety of others, and following all applicable rules shouldn't be a shared and equal responsibility between ALL users of shared roads.

 

This discussion has become academic. Stay off the phone and follow the law, unicycle or 18 wheeler.

 

I think we got way off track here about cyclists instead of the topic, "texting".. Completely agree and tell that to the texter.

[QUOTE="I just don't accept that reality, as a reason or excuse why responsibility for personal safety, the safety of others, and following all applicable rules shouldn't be a shared and equal responsibility between ALL users of shared roads.[/QUOTE]

 

Partly because air brakes operate differently than the hydraulic ones on smaller vehicles

Are you going to tell me all the cyclists I've seen running stop signs and red lights will do so when in a car? I accept that being in a car means that I should be more alert to pedestrians and cyclist of either stripe. When a cyclist is blocked from my view by a SUV they are riding along the side of suddenly appears in an intersection without a pause for a stop sign, that extra alertness may not be enough.

 

All bicycles sold in Germany must have active lighting systems including a front light and red taillight powered by a dynamo. Bicyclists there use them, and even in the daytime the lights are bright enough to greatly enhance visibility. So if we have the political will to pass and enforce regulations for bicycles, at least a part of the "invisible bicycle" problem could be addressed.

 

So the vibe I'm getting is it's the cyclist fault for being unsafe... to sum this up, this went from I'm worried about drivers hitting me on my bike because they are using their phones to cyclist are unsafe so it's the cyclist fault..

I was simply expressing my concern as a driver and other drivers texting.. and even more so when I'm biking.. oh well..

 

It went there because of the implication that it is the car driver's sole responsibility to not hit anybody else, and cyclists have none.

 

Yeah pretty much sums it up. "We do not ride bicycles, but we do drive cars, so it is bicyclist's fault".

Interestingly enough it would have been entirely different matter if it were pedestrian walking across to get to his/hers parked car. At least until they have their behind surgically attached to the driving seat.

 

That was researched and crucial differences were found. If you're talking to someone who's in the car with you, they're cognisant of your tasks, tend to back off when you're negotiating a left turn, for example. A caller OTOH, will want to keep up the level of conversation, is not aware of your attention needs.

We recently phoned in (when we'd got home) an aggressive tailgater. I was actually told by the police it would have been acceptable to make a hand-held 911 call in this instance.

 

I can't argue that doing something (hands free talking while driving) is less distracting than NOT doing something (Full attention to driving).
I might "question" the reality of which is more potentially distracting between a hands free phone conversation and having somebody with you in the car. I guess it would boil down to the polite parameters of conversation. And yes, someone actually with you, can react to traffic situations that might arise. But I don't think there is any guarantee someone WILL.

Seems to me someone next to you can also become upset, be argumentative, and NOT be paying attention to what you are doing or the traffic around you is doing...with the extra penalty that they are IN the car with you, and you can't simply hang up.

So I don't know the parameters of any "study" but I don't think one is necessarily "safe" and the other necessarily "unsafe", both a hands free conversation on the phone, and having a person riding with you, can be distracting situations and potentially dangerous.

But on the other hand the minutia of which is safest?
I don't really care.

I'm just being a realist here. From the standpoint that while I think the vast majority of people understand and support laws against texting while driving, nearly uniformly. I don't think you are going to get people to give up or sacrifice hands free phone conversations, even if there is risk to it, as any activity while driving.

There are concessions to reality. In a sarcastic hypothetical, we could all be donning fire retardant suits, crash helmets and cars build standards could be race car crash level.
But we all know that simply isn't going to happen.

And that's kind of how I feel about hands free phone conversations while driving. I can't argue it's safer to NOT do it. But we should all know that simply isn't going to happen.

 

we don't know that, and i hope you're wrong, but i don't know that either.

 

Electric Me, I'm by no means nixing hands-free, just saying it is taxing on your brain cells, it's worthwhile to increase your following distance, keep the conversation short, yada yada.