Toyota: 600 Requests for Mirai, Refueling Woes to Be Expected

Interesting.
On one hand, Toyota is absolutely right, refueling woes due to lack of refueling station infrastructure SHOULD be expected.

But on the other hand, No.

We are the greatest consumers in the history of this planet. I don't think we expect "woes" with any purchase we make.

You are introducing an expensive product, that is unique. If you want it to be successful, I don't know if you can count on the "realistic" expectations of consumers to bare with you as the infrastructure for the actual operating of the vehicle is slowly strengthened. And a lot of value judgments about the viability of The Mirai and Hydrogen Fuel Celled Vehicles are unfortunately and probably totally unfairly going to be tied to reactions and early returns on "ease of use".

Can Hydrogen Fuel Celled Vehicles and/or The Mirai specifically survive this " Period of Discomfort " ? I actually hope so. I'm rooting for it.
But it's dangerously convenient to label it as "normal business". It may be the reality, but it's not the normal expectations that consumers and automobile drivers expect.

Toyota, would be best served to recognize this danger, and work as rapidly as is possible to shorten this period of discomfort. Because it can be a period of discomfort leading to the birth of something new...or a period of discomfort leading to the death of a commercial concept. The jury is still out. But hoping that early adopters are patient, and understanding? I don't know if THAT is realistic from Toyota.

 

Toyota has seen the future and it is FCVS.

DBCassidy

 

Well OK that's a whole lot of ZEV credits I guess. Mirai Chat anybody? Or do they come here?

 

This 600 that said they were interested in the car. They got to pass the screening process and financial, or just back out.

How many paid reservations are there for the Model X, 20k?

 

I will be test driving one this weekend!

 

God bless Early Adopters. If it weren't for them the rest of us wouldn't have stuff. Those willing to participate in the FCV plans should demand that alternate transportation be provided when fuel isn't available.

 

So let me guess, these vehicles won't be getting the fast refuel CARB credits right, with 20-minute refueling times? Right?

 

Like a couple of companies did with BEV leases, for long distance trips.

 

how is it capable if there's no station where one can use that capability?

by that logic, all Teslas should be capable too, since there's one battery swap station and it actually functions today. with a refuel time faster than that of today's FCVs.

but hey, it's not like the playing field is ever equal whenever hydrogen is involved.

 

There were 23,000 world wide orders for the model X in november last year. I'm sure its higher right now, despite the number that have switched to a model S or other vehicle. Backlog will not be filled until 2016. That shouldn't be compared to mirai. It is using the technology from the very well reviewed model S, with happy customers in all 50 states. The mirai is using some well established tech, and some very shaky new tech.

requoting the OP there is a reason mirai interest is so low
Toyota: 600 Requests for Mirai, Refueling Woes to Be Expected | Vehicles & Technology content from WardsAuto

That makes sense. It would be stupid of Toyota to try to sell 10,000 fcv into the US without the infrastructure. Building hydrogen stations takes time and money.

Apologies for the negative tone from this, but easiest place I could find how this number compares to plug-in introductions.
Initial Demand For Toyota Mirai In The US Not Good, Only 600 Apply

+1

The rules were written in 2013 so that California would be responsable for the refueling of fuel cell vehicles and 2 more bonus fcv were added because it would probably suck and the fuel cell lobby knew it couldn't sell its promised vehicles. That 2 bonus credits were to give more credit for each one, as they would be hard to sell if the refueling infrastructure sucked. It just isn't fair that tesla could simply use the money they got from other car companies like honda for those bonus 3 zev credits. that want to make fuel cells, and use it to build swap stations. Hydrogen fueling costs a lot more than battery swap stations, so giving those credits at the expese of companies pushing hydrogen is not fare, they need to wait for the tax payers to put in the infrastructure and that is slower.

In 2013 and 2014 the rules were written to strip bevs from fast refueling even though battery swap might be easier and more convenient for customers than find a hydrogen station and fueling. I mean you have to be fair by giving the fuel cell lobby more. There already is demand for plug-ins in California without fast refueling bonuses, and people are going to charge at home or supper chargers anyway. If you made incentives the same that would favor the technology people want, and CARB wouldn't want that.

 

Please post your thoughts here afterwards.

 

Only 600? I guess Toyota needs to go back to CARB and have them award 100 credits per FCV car.

 

I and Hawaiianbuilt tested the Mirai this morning at the Toyota event in Pasadena CA. This event was by invite only. The event was well planned out with each guest/party scheduled a time slot to drive.

They first went over the what's, how's and why's of this car. It was very educational.

I will only list the highlights of what was discussed:

1. The Mirai will only be sold in Japan, USA and UK for now. Only 700 will be released for the USA market. Toyota will determine who is approved for the lease or buy of the Mirai. They want to make sure the vehicle will work for the buyer and that they will have access for the Hydrogen fuel in their area.

2. There is no ICE. The fuel cell stack replaces the ICE. Hydrogen and air produce electricity and the by-product is water out the tail pipe.

3. The name Mirai means "Future" in Japanese.

4. There is a 11 person team that builds each Mirai by hand, and this is the same team that built the Lexus LFA! This 11 person team are the best of the best and they are called Takumi.

5. The Mirai battery has 360 cells that produce 650 volts, that is created by a boost converter. Many of the hybrid components are the same that are used on the Lexus RX and Hybrid Camry. Tried and tested technology.

The Miria looks so much better then it does in pictures! It is a big car, Camry size. It feels very solid, and much carbon fiber has been used in building it. The doors close with a solid feel, almost German like. The car is quite as there is no ICE. It is really nice to hear nothing! Its ride is soft, if not floaty like, more like a luxury car. They have installed a JBL audio system that is very impressive. The dash is well laid out, and very familiar with the Prius. The shft knob and digital display is very Prius like. Materials used in the cabin are all soft touch and attractive. The car is fast off the line and as well at mid speed acceleration. The top speed is limited to 110 MPH. This is a very roomy car and competes well against the Camry or Avalon. I was very impressed with it and would love to get one in the future.

There is only one model and one price. The price is $57,000.00. There is a Toyota credit of $7,500.00 and California credit of $5,000.00 that can be applied to the price. Toyota is also providing a $15,000.00 credit card to be used for the purchase of Hydrogen fuel, good for 3 years.

I do believe this is the future. Honda and Toyota are putting lots of money into this technology and moving quickly at setting up the infustructure for selling Hydrogen fuel in California.

Here are some pictures:

 

Jeez - a double post

 

it may be that less than 1/2 of the 600 quantity - between insufficient credit scores & proximity to the hydrogen stations in relation to work/home. We're close to a station, but honda still thought it was too far back when clarity's were 1st being leased. It'll be interesting to see how far Toyota will let folks live/work from hydrogen.
orenji- did Toyota give out any info in that regard?
.

 

dang - triple post