Prius Plugin Regrets

There are already really good deals available that I gather are not hard to find. Only the fact that the Volt is made by GM keeps me from being tempted.

 

As suggested by ETC(SS), I would think that a 2015 or earlier Volt would not be a good choice for someone who cannot plug in, since its mpg in hybrid mode is not all that great, as well as requiring premium gasoline. The Volt was designed to be a range-extended EV (which it is very good at), not a particularly good hybrid. I cannot speak to the 2016 model, which has a new generation of the Voltec system.

 

i used to think this too but now know that it is simply not the case. if the car cannot break sufficiently with regen only (full battery, temperature too high, wrong time of day, etc), it WILL spin up the ICE to achieve the equivalent "engine brake" effect, which is horrible.

to the OP: 28k is not a bad price in California, and you got 0% APR, and will presumably get another $4k off after Federal and State incentives. This is essentially what you would pay for a slightly less-well-equipped Prius. If you're really miserable, you could "rent out" the car through something like RelayRides so that you can keep the State rebate (which requires you to maintain ownership of the car for 30 months).

However, I will say this: many of things that you talk about now, I didn't care too much about when I got my PiP, but became much more obvious once I got an EV. For example, I no longer have to trudge out an extension cord every night to plug into the building laundry room (I live in an apartment) and then put it away in the morning. I can make right turns when coming out of side streets and know that I'm not going to piss off the guy I pulled in front of because I can accelerate without triggering the ICE. Driving at 75 mph doesn't make me feel like I'm in a rocket going to the moon. Passing people at 75 mph in an instant is something that I can actually do now.

So yes – if you were looking for an "EV" experience, the PiP does a piss-poor job of providing that – no questions asked. Though, I will say this – as far as the Leaf is concerned, it won't help you in the "grandma driving" department. You'd want a B-class, i3, Sonic, or 500e (roughly in that order) for that.

 

What you say is true but also true to pressing the brake harder in those conditions isn't it? So same results as I said.
I will rephrase my statement: in EV mode B position is as pure regeneration as pressing the brake harder.

 

No, I have yet to have that happen unless I'm going downhill. I have definitely had times where going in B resulted in ICE, switching to D and braking resulted in EV. So…something else at play.

Edit: but as a side note, yet another thing you never have to worry about in a true EV.

 

This maybe, I have never tried both options on the same decline at same conditions
As to your EDIT: B mode (and "engine brake") is there as one of the means to protect battery for longevity and in this respect "true EV" owners should worry about (IMHO).

Thinking of it:
Maybe when B results in ICE then D + braking results in EV plus friction brake at same conditions?

 

Entirely possible.

Though I'm not sure why EV owners have to worry about this; their cars have friction brakes too. It's just that in an EV, if the conditions aren't there for regen, the only option is friction brakes. Which is something that should have been coded into the PiP software but was clearly overlooked as it's a non-issue on the regular Prius.

 

The dilemma you are raising: Ice spinning or friction brakes - which is better?
My perception: for very long decent from a high mountain ICE spinning burning regen is a better option taking considerable load from the brakes (safety issue).
Maybe this was not an overlook in the PIP software?

 

This is true if you're using the brakes which might not be (probably isn't) the case. If you're not using the brakes then the PIP needs B less than the regular Prius since it has more battery capacity depending on your SOC. Of coarse proper planning would provide the needed SOC for the electricity produced.

 

Just used B mode for the first time a few days ago. I can confirm that in EV mode, even without touching the brake pedal, one can hear the ICE spin (engine brake engages). Dropping back into D mode it goes back to regen alone. I toggled back and forth a couple times to make sure I wasn't imagining things.

Looking at the display screen, B-mode seems to apply more pedal free regen than D mode. However, the brake pedal is very touchy in B mode and with just a little pressure applied the max regen ability can be exceeded.

 

In long and steep downhill starches I find that I always need to use the brakes on top of B position so probably it is the case for those circumstances.
B position is effective in long and steep downhills whether it is a PIP or regular Prius to take a potential load from friction brakes. The fact that B position is pure regen in many (but not all) circumstances is a bonus.

 

Braking is pure regen unless it's hard braking. B is not pure regen.

If you've run down your PIP battery enough before you start that downhill run (smart driving by anticipating what's coming) there will be a lot of battery capacity to fill without the need for using B. If it's a long enough run you might want to use B to keep from overcharging your battery but if I remember correctly the car will start the engine in order to burn off the excess electricity being produced, which again, negates the need for using B. I've experienced this in Asheville, NC while driving my 2004 Prius with a much smaller battery then a PIP. Next time I'm in Asheville I'll have my PIP so I'll see how it reacts.

The only time I can see a need for B is if you're in a position where you have to use more braking then the generator can produce for an extended period of time. Most people never need B.

 

Braking is not pure regen, in steep downhill it is sometimes a combination of regen and friction. B position is not always pure regen either but it is important for not loosing brakes effectiveness or loosing brakes altogether in extreme circumstances.
Planning ahead is good driving of course but not always practical. Surely you do not suggest to burn some electrons going nowhere in circles before starting a downhill!
I always use B position in long and steep downhill I am not familiar with, if not immediately in the beginning then somewhere down the road depending on circumstances (planning ahead). If ICE spins occasionally, so what, it is without fuel (I hope) and an insurance to bring me safely to my destination.

 

On a small car with 4 disk brakes overheating them is something that will almost never happen unless you drive with 2 feet or don't know how to manage your brakes on a long decent.

Really? If you are going down a mountain what do you have to do before that? Go up it? Run your EV down going up the mountain. If you live up there and have to travel down the mountain then don't charge your battery before the decent. Of coarse if the only way someone can think of to run down their EV is to drive in circles then go for it, you're only wasting a little tire wear

I'm not saying that B shouldn't be used or that you can't use it. My opinion is that it's not needed under almost all circumstances. I've driven down mountains in much heavier cars without downshifting and had no problems with overheating brakes. Overheating brakes are a concern on big rigs but rarely on cars. I've driven my very large Sprinter van down mountains without downshifting and had no problems. Proper braking is all that's needed on any vehicle other than those with very heavy loads. The most important thing on non-hybrids is to not ride the brakes. Small spurts of heavy braking followed by coasting works great. Same technique can be used with a Prius if your battery charge is high.

 

Since we've taken this detour, EVs have much larger regen capability, so the only way you might even need to think about friction brakes overhearing is if you decide to start running down a long and I mean long mountain with a fully charged battery. How many people do that?

 

only the ones who charge up at the top.

 

^^^Downshifting is good driving practice for any car. Disasters do happen as a result of brakes overheating.
I prefer to drive up a mountain in HV mode.
Max regen can be easily exceeded in higher speeds even if the battery is not completely full, it is controlled by the max current the battery is allowed to receive not by the amount of pressure you are putting on the brakes, the battery size (as you suggest) is not a factor here.
I have difficulty to believe the B position is just an unnecessary leftover from The regular Prius forgotten to be taken out.

Problem common to BEVs and PHVs

 

i would say uncommon, but have no data.

 

Common to the ones living on a hill.

In your BEV (is it a Leaf?) if the amount of resistance to moving you get when off the pedal is higher than what you used to in the PIP, isn't it in a sense similar to EV B position in the PIP?

 

Somewhere I heard that B mode (or other explicit downshifting settings) are a U.S. government regulation for cars with automatic transmissions; there has to be a way to "downshift" to provide engine braking to avoid brake overheating, and the regulation was never updated to account for hybrids, much less plug-in hybrids, where it is much less relevant (or not relevant at all, depending on who you talk to).

WARNING: This may be apocryphal. I cannot provide a source.