Volt 2.0: Ruess "It will leap-frog... the competition"

Still would like to know why it is bad for me.

 

The Gen 1 Volt is doing just fine by me, the Gen 2 more so.

 

I can't answer that for you but yourself. However, I can say this.

If you find accepting compromises for the sake of more EV miles, you may be EV blind-sighted. Volt can work for some people but I think it is for a small niche market. Just like a Corvette, it'll scratch the itch.

There is nothing wrong with wanting for more EV range, I do. When I was 13 years old, I had spare parts from a calculator and a battery-powered remote-controlled toy car. Under the sun light, I wired the solar cell to the electric motor and it started to turn. Ever since then, I have been fascinated with a car powered by solar energy.

My dream has now become a reality with PiP and PV system on my roof. However, I've accepted BEV limitations and realized the benefits that fossil fuel has. A well designed plugin hybrid with the advantages of both EV and HV. I do want more EV range but not at the expense of other needs.

The objective of Volt was to out-halo the Prius halo. It was conceived by Bob Lutz whom identified Prius being a halo for Toyota.

What Bob failed to see was, Prius was also a profitable mass marketed mid-size car that had halo.

The result is Volt with bragging rights (mainly EV range), for halo effect. Volt 2.0 is to extend it without other attributes that Prius brought upon.

 

That's called being realistic.

The purpose of Volt was to be a game-changer, selling in high-volume at a profit.

That was not achieved. There is nothing to debate.

 

I have owned three Prii and living in a rural area I achieved over 50 mpg and had range assurance. Obviously I have been very happy with my Prius experience. I made 6 round trips from Washington state to North Carolina very comfortably and totally maintenance free other than oil changes. Now I am moving into a urban living area. Now my trips will mostly be short around town trips (in the Prius that means mileage in the 30's) with 60 to 150 mile trips every once in a while. The Volt fits that perfectly and maybe the new Prius plugin will also, we will see. I have not had the opportunity yet to sit in or drive the Volt but intend to remedy that as soon as the new Volt II arrives. Being able to actually drive at all speeds in EV and not have the engine come on is a big plus for me. Will the new Prius Plugin allow that? Now my need to carry large loads is gone and it is very rare that I have back seat passengers. Toyota had better put out some real information soon or they may lose me.

 

And Toyota expected the Prius plug in to sell in numbers nearly as high as GM did the Volt in its first year; 40k in Japan and 20k in the US.
Neither achieved those overreaching numbers, but who is abandoning their design goals of the first generation for two to three times EV range in the second one?

 

A regular Prius would get under 30 MPG in the first few miles (or 5 mins). My first year with PiP was like yours. Many short trips or few very long trips. See this thread of my first year experience. I averaged 12.5 miles per charge and it was plenty. I would even charge it every other day.

Now, my commute is different after moving to NJ. I still get about half EV and half gas mile ratio. Pretty balanced and efficiency of both fuels went up (less stop signs/lights but more hills).

PiP would be perfect for you but it may not be sold where you are but PiP2 should.

 

Huh? The goal set for US first-year rollout was 13k. Where did you ever see 20k? For that matter, what is the source for a claimed 40k?

As for the abandoning, what? Toyota's design goals have always been to retain cargo & seating space and keep cost contained to a competitive package upgrade level. Are you claiming that isn't the case anymore?

 

"Toyota has set its global sales goal for the Prius PHV at more than 60,000 a year, with Japan comprising 40,000 units, two-thirds of the global sales goal, as the company views the nation as the main market for the model, the maker said."Toyota rolls out rechargeable Prius plug-in hybrid - AJW by The Asahi Shimbun
I had over looked the other markets. It appears that The US market was the only one the projection was close on. 60,000 worldwide a year is 71,000 total by May 2015.
Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We would like to have seen it as a competitive package upgrade to the Prius, but Toyota treats it like a different model.
An EV range of 20 miles is going to take a traction pack around the size of the Energis'. Battery advances may allow Toyota to get it into the new platform with compromising cargo and seating, but not with a 30 mile EV range.
It won't have a small battery anymore either way, which was supposed to be the best path for reduced cost, weight, and short recharge times, or was that just fan talking points?

 

Similar situation here. I have bought 3 Prii (2001,2007,2010) and my FL residence puts me immense distance from any PiP dealer. The 2001 is not going to last forever and a replacement will be needed. A PHEV is extremely high on my priority list because voting with my wallet speaks louder than 10,000 postings. If I want to take steps to sustainability, I've got to take major steps by selecting what I buy and avoid buying. Gas prices today don't matter to me as much as gas prices 10 years from now.

Now there are PHEV/EV choices available and the pro's and con's facing a real buyer are quite different than the pro's and con's of a thread discussion like this. The killer Toyota drawback is the successful efforts by Toyota to make the PiP a non-option for a FL driver for the foreseeable future. Toyota's only other non-gas guzzler option is some Hydrogen thingy that is irrelevant in my lifetime. The real GM drawback is the risk of GM returning to it's old cost cutting habits that cripple GM vehicle reliability and longevity. The engineering design of the Volt is really solid, the issue is how long it will last.

 

What are my PHEV choices? Seriously, the Volt may be at the bottom of your list, but is anything else on it?...A Ford with half the EV range of the Volt or an much more expensive option such as the Model S? (Don't bring up transversing the country for a vehicle out of production as the best option. I actually have to be able to buy it to be on my buying list.) As for the niche market comment, that is absolutely true. But in reality the total US market is a vast collection of niche markets. I fit the PHEV niche presently with the EV niche getting to the possibility level soon.

Having spent my life as an engineer, what some non-CEO corporate executive says is usually irrelevant spin. The engineering of the Volt left Bob's realm long ago. The competence of the design engineers and the competence of the manufacturing/material quality are what make or break a vehicle's success. (And compromising engineering is a GM past specialty.) The Volt has been around long enough to demonstrate the GM corporate and engineering commitment is now permanent. I'm wanting to see if the Quality advances exist and are permanent.

 

What Toyota has done is what Government Motors has failed to do.

Enuf said.

DBCassidy

 

Too little, too late. The Volt has missed the mark of going mainstream. Time to face reality.

DBCassidy

 

Very nice improvements. If they can get their dealers on board and choose to actually market the car it should do well.

 

That is a big IF with the dealers. Understanding that they are in business to move product off their lots. Having a product that doesn't really move well, nor in volume doesn't bode well from a dealers' business view point. A product such as the Volt does not fit that product slot.

DBCassidy

 

53 miles at 106 MPGe would use half a gallon equivalent. 33.7kWh/2 = 16.85 kWh.

Remove 15% charging loss and we have 14.32 kWh usage out of 18.4 kWh pack which is 78% depth.

That's pretty deep of a cycle. Will it be charged to 90% and discharged to 12%? Perhaps, 100% to 22%?

PiP charge to 85% and discharge to 22%.

 

You are double dipping.
As I recall, the MPEG already takes into account charging losses.

In any event, 75% SOC is not all that high. Most BEVs allow closer to 90% with very good results.
With only a 75% use, GM is treating the Volt II battery packs very gingerly.