1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Difference in EV mileage between Base and Advanced?

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by Greg_M, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. ft3sfty

    ft3sfty Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2015
    20
    4
    0
    Location:
    Martinez
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Have you tried swapping wheels & tires between cars? When I switched to brand new Michelin Defender tires from Michelin Symmetry tires, My gas mileage decreased by 10% immediately.
     
  2. Greg_M

    Greg_M Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    151
    35
    0
    Location:
    NC
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    The 2012 has been sitting for 24hrs now without being used or plugged in. Just got 12.5v, 12.3 with lights on and 14.2 turned on.

    The 2013 has mismatched tires on it and 3 of them are not high MPG tires. The 2012 has fairly new high MPG tires on it. They may not be the best tires for MPG but they're pretty good. Tires are most likely not the cause. I'm seeing between around 20% difference in EV only. Without EV figured in the equation both cars get virtually the same MPG.

    Under normal driving where I'm trying to get the most EV miles but still go with the flow of traffic I get consistently around 13 miles on the 2013 but only 10 on the 2012. Saturday morning I drove down a stretch of road with no traffic and few lights. I was able to squeeze out 15.5 miles from the 2013 and 12.5 from the 2012 until the engine started. I then stopped each car at that point and restarted so that when I got home I'd get a rough idea of what hybrid mileage I got. One came in at 57mpg and the other 56mpg.

    I know my methods aren't scientific but there is enough of a difference between them to conclude that there is something that's keeping the 2012 from getting the EV mileage it should get.

    Right now I've got 3 Prius, 2004, 2012 and a 2013. I'm going to be selling one of them eventually. The one I know I'm keeping is the 2012. I'd like to find out what's killing the EV mileage and get it fixed but it's not a deal breaker for me. What is frustrating is that there are several trips that we use the car for that if it got that extra 2-3 EV miles then the engine wouldn't have to turn on. Many times it turns on a mile or so before we pull onto our street.

    I am pleased to see the discussion about this. Thank you for your thoughts about what this might be.
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,132
    50,049
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    this is tougher to crack than climate change.:mad:

    maybe you could ship the battery to kiwi for testing.:cool:

    do you have a scan gauge? now i'm thinking the software is limiting the parameters of battery availability. or is that addressed in the 3 kWh charging?
     
    giora likes this.
  4. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    3,028
    2,369
    0
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Have you considered a front end wheel misalignment?
    Or an unbalanced wheel?
    An emergency brake partially grabbing?

    Mike
     
    drash likes this.
  5. drash

    drash Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    2,502
    1,271
    0
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    This would be interesting to put my ODB II adapter and EngineLink/iOS to read the actual battery current, voltage and SOC.
    Or John's Torque/Android setup on it.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,132
    50,049
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    he's assuming that if the mpg's are the same, it can't be a brake/wheel/tyre/suspension/regen thing.
     
  7. drash

    drash Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    2,502
    1,271
    0
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Definitely sounds like something mechanical is making it use more EV.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,132
    50,049
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    but not mpg's.
     
  9. drash

    drash Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    2,502
    1,271
    0
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    The EV would be more sensitive to mechanical issues since it is lower horsepower.
     
    rxlawdude likes this.
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,132
    50,049
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    mmm, interesting, so we're back to post #41.
     
  11. roflwaffle

    roflwaffle Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2012
    381
    77
    0
    Location:
    Orange County
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    That depends on the trip home. The two would need to have identical trips (same lights/stops/braking in general/weather) because the difference between 56mpg and 57mpg is only 11Wh/mile.

    Lets say Greg's trip home was ~10 miles. That would be a total difference on ~110Whs, which is roughly one complete stop from 15 mph in a 3400lb auto. So if at any point on the trip home, Greg made one additional stop from 15mph, or a braking event from say 45mph to 40mph, that would dump enough noise into the data to make a comparison difficult if not impossible.

    I imagine even a few mph difference in wind speeds could result in that difference.
     
  12. Greg_M

    Greg_M Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    151
    35
    0
    Location:
    NC
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    Here are a few answers:
    I do have a scan gauge II in my 2004 Prius and Sprinter. I believe I've got a 3rd one around here but the software in them is old. I'd be willing to connect it and run some test but someone's going to have to run me through setting one up again. It's been 6 years since I set these up.
    Alignment performed last month
    Tires balanced the day after I bought it.

    You're right about differences between trips can make a difference and the non-EV part of my test last Saturday was small and far from anything to base conclusions on. However, I did drive both cars for a lot of highway miles on batteries that were not charged so there was no EV miles. Both drives resulted in low 50's mpg. No more than a couple % difference. The EV difference has been consistent wether I'm driving to maximize EV or trying to just drive normally while keeping the engine from coming on. The 2013 always gets significantly more miles in EV percentage wise.
     
  13. Greg_M

    Greg_M Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    151
    35
    0
    Location:
    NC
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    Missed that the first time around. I'll try to find a place where I can safely do that without inhibiting traffic.
     
    bisco likes this.
  14. Jan Treur

    Jan Treur Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    240
    168
    0
    Location:
    Heiloo, Netherlands
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    When indeed the performances are similar for driving on gas, then it may well point in the direction of the electrical part of the drivetrain, maybe either a leakage in the circuits, or one of the electrical motors has an exceptionally high resistance in the 2012. As energy cannot disappear but only be transformed into, for example, heat energy, it might be possible to detect higher temperatures generated by such deviations, or some smell due to these higher temperatures.
     
    giora likes this.
  15. giora

    giora Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    1,966
    730
    0
    Location:
    Herzliya, Israel. Car: Euro version GLI
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A
    ^ Agree this is the route to check.
    Another option, as trollbait pointed out already, an aftermarket accessory with substantial energy consumption installed on the 12' ?
     
    #95 giora, Jun 24, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2015
  16. Greg_M

    Greg_M Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    151
    35
    0
    Location:
    NC
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    There are no aftermarket accessories on the 2012. Last Saturday's test run was with the windows rolled up, A/C off, no lights and just the radio was on.

    I'd love to get this fixed but I'm not so sure it will happen. How many dealerships have someone qualified to run down something like this and fix it? Then, who's going to pay for it? It's a certified used hybrid but there is a deductible for each visit and warranty work is only done when something breaks so this wouldn't be covered unless they happened to find something wrong. If they find nothing I'll be stuck with a large bill and that leads into the economics of it. A few miles per charge doesn't add up to a lot of $$ over the coarse of a year.
     
  17. retired4999

    retired4999 Prius driver since 2005

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    2,652
    625
    15
    Location:
    Eau Claire, Wi.
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I know it would be a pain in the butt!
    You could swap 12 volt batteries between cars and retest.
     
  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,447
    11,760
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Poor grounding of the 12V system came lead to some wonky issues in cars. If you can get to all the grounds, there are multiple, disconnect them, sand off any corrosion and excess paint for good metal to metal contact, and reconnect, making sure it is tight.

    This may not be worth your time when the grounds would be a PITA to get too.

    On the subject of electrical problems and PITA, are loose connections. There are a lot of them in a car, and the problem may be intermittent. Worse is if an intermittent problem(transmission indicator light off only sometimes) is from insulation rubbing off a wire and it sometimes grounds out when contacting body metal.
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,132
    50,049
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
  20. giora

    giora Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    1,966
    730
    0
    Location:
    Herzliya, Israel. Car: Euro version GLI
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A
    Ants?
     
    bisco likes this.