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Volt 2.0: Ruess "It will leap-frog... the competition"

Discussion in 'GM Hybrids and EVs' started by Jeff N, Oct 1, 2014.

  1. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    After spending decades slowly shrinking from the world's largest car company to near extinction, maybe GM is discovering the source of their problem is inferior vehicles. Unfortunately, corporate fossilization is extremely hard to overcome. The ignition switch is the logical result of cutting corners to excess as part of this fossilization. The Volt is actually a real attempt to return to innovation instead of cost cutting as a attempt to develop the next generation of cars. Regardless of gas prices today, gas prices a decade from now will be vastly higher than today and every car maker knows this. What really hangs in the balance is seeing if GM can make high reliability and long lasting cars. Volt or not, this is where GM survives or dies. The Volt would be a really big seller if the reliability and quality was understood to be at the same level as Toyota products.


    There is one thing about new product funding that is unmistakable. New product funding primarily sustained out the companies budget is very no-nonsense about developing a viable product for the marketplace. At the other extreme, new product funding using primarily government funding/subsidies is almost entirely spent developing "stuff" that is optimized NOT for the marketplace, but for obtaining more government funding. The government funded end product always ends up being a marketplace dead end and a political love item. Some of the major EVs and PHEVs being developed by the automakers are designed as real products for the real marketplace...especially important once gas prices start a sustained and permanent long term climb. All fuel cells and some EVs are still just products optimized for government subsidies and public financed R&D money.
     
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  2. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    why cali first? shouldn't be iowa?
     
  4. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    GM did the same thing with the Gen 1.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    dissed iowa on that one also?
     
  6. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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  7. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    GM has quietly updated the 2016 Volt specs:
    Chevrolet News - United States - Volt


    Old: 41 mpg combined, 102 MPGe EV
    New: 43 mpg combined, 106 MPGe EV

    EV MPGe:
    117 BMW i3 REX
    106 Chevy Volt
    95 Prius PHEV
    93 Hyundai Sonata PHEV
    88 Ford Energi

    The Prius PHEV is 95 due to the gas usage but would be near the i3 or better if the gas were kept off.

    PHEV EV Range:
    72 BMW i3 REX
    50 Chevy Volt
    24 Hyundai Sonata
    20 Ford Energi (19 AER)
    11 Prius PHEV (6 AER)

    PHEV Hybrid MPG:
    50 Prius PHEV
    43 Chevy Volt
    40 Hyundai Sonata
    39 BMW i3 REX
    38 Ford Energi

    Among all 2015-2016 plugin and non-plugin hybrid MPG:
    50 Prius
    50 Prius PHEV
    50 Prius C
    47 Honda Accord
    47 Chevy Malibu
    45 Honda Civic
    45 VW Jetta
    43 Chevy Volt
    -------
    42 Prius V
    42 Lexus Ct 200h
    42 Hyundai Sonata non-plugin
    42 Ford Fusion non-plugin
    41 Toyota Camry
     
    #327 Jeff N, Jun 11, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2015
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  8. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    My PiP EV is getting 150 MPGe. Loving it :)
     
  9. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    With such modest improvements... well below what had been hoped... the lack of fanfare is no surprised.

    Enthusiasts had anticipated a revolutary leap forward; instead, they got evolutionary... which is what "next generation" was always intended to represent.

    I'm glad the craziness is over and we can all join in as a plug-in team. The "vastly superior" nonsense really had a negative effect on the overall effort to end the reign of traditional vehicles.

    Sadly, this outcome had been predicted many years ago, when the "too little, too slowly" concern was first made. Finally having reached a state of closure is quite nice.

    I'm looking forward to more plug-in events. The looking down upon Prius PHV was counter-productive. Now there can be a variety of approaches and a recognition of how diverse the market really is. The more-is-better mindset has proven ineffective.
     
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  10. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    The webpage was changed overnight.

    It now states 41 mpg combined.
     
    #330 john1701a, Jun 12, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015
  11. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    Yup. My guess is it was a premature leak of what was planned to be announced in mid-July. I suspect someone was editing the media information pages for that July announcement using some version control content publishing system and didn't realize they were publishing the modified version online.

    2016 Chevrolet Volt Fuel Efficiency And Range Estimates Creep Higher

    At least three specification details were updated versus previous preliminary specs released weeks ago:

    41 became 43 mpg
    102 became 106 MPGe
    420 combined range became 430 miles

    At some point after the new specs were discovered and discussed on GM-volt.com and media inquiries may have started the 43 was rolled back to 41 and then they stopped changing the spec page.

    Notice that the total range, defined in the spec page itself as EV range plus gas tank capacity and mpg rating, was not reverted. The 430 implies 43 mpg because 430 - 50 miles EV results in 380 and 380 / 8.9 gallons gas is 42.7 mpg. This gives support to the idea that the 43 mpg was not just some accidental typo.

    At this point, we will have to just wait until their planned July announcement or until another data leak occurs.
     
    #331 Jeff N, Jun 12, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015
  12. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    In the last day or so a story has been floating around that Elon Musk said during an Edison Electric Institute event in New Orleans that the Tesla Model 3 would have 250 miles of range. Now that the video of that event has been posted to YouTube it's clear that was a misquote and he really just referred to the usual figure of at least 200 miles.

    The far more interesting quote from that event was from Tesla's chief engineer, J. B. Straubel, who said existing typical battery price reduction estimates are very conservative and that he would be disappointed if the cell-level price had not dropped to around $100 per kWh by the end of the decade (~2020) or just 5 years from now.

    Just in time for a 3rd gen Volt! :)

    That quote happens at around the 36 minute mark:

     
  13. dbcassidy

    dbcassidy Toyota Hybrid Nation, 8 Million Strong

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    Gen3 Volt? - Tesla will have eaten the Volt by then.

    DBCassidy
     
  14. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    It won't matter. Volt is no longer Volt already. An affordable choice for the masses will likely be something else anyway.

    Go over to the daily blog. Yet again, they are changing definitions & goals. Those changes have skewed the vehicle called "Volt" so far from the original intent, what difference does it make what comes out next? By the way, that's why there is still some resentment for Prius. Toyota has stayed true to purpose.

    Thankfully, the pointless chest-pounding is fading away. Business reality is helping to bring about plug-in cooperation. In other words, market need is finally being addressed. In fact, we're seeing that here now with more constructive discussion. The magic "$100 per kWh" target will open up a wide range of battery configuration opportunity. It won't be possible to declare "vastly superior". There will be a variety of choices for a variety of buyers.
     
  15. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    I don't really understand what you mean by this.

    What daily blog? Link please....

    The 2016 Volt is an obvious incremental sequel of the 2011 Volt. Everything is significantly better but it's still the same basic idea and overall EREV architecture. It drives all electric regardless of speed, acceleration, or road grade until the battery runs out and then drives like a full hybrid but with a ~100 kW high output hybrid battery and large motors that it can utilize even in hybrid mode with the gas engine blended in.

    That hasn't changed in 2016 and it's unlikely to change for the 3rd generation Volt. In my opinion, it's much more likely that the plugin version of the ~2021 5th generation Prius will sprout a clutch or 3 and turn into an EREV. Seriously, the 3rd generation Prius and 2016 Volt transmission architectures are nearly identical except for the clutches.

    Battery-only cars will become a lot cheaper and have greater range along with increasing access to high speed DC charging for regional or long-distant trips. However, there are pretty clearly going to be many customers in the 2020-2025 timeframe who will prefer to have a smaller pack with a range extender for various reasons. Except for Cadillac CT6-style large muscle cars, most vehicles like that will be EREVs because they will have the motors and battery packs that are big enough to support that mode of operation. I have no doubt that there will also be PHEVs with smaller 25 mile or less packs for packaging or cost reduction reasons as well.

    More "Volts" and more variety in plugin architecture as the market continues to shake out what tradeoffs are most popular with customers with the cheaper and denser packs in that timeframe.
     
    #335 Jeff N, Jun 13, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2015
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  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Did GM ever say the Volt was going to be 'mainstream'?
    Aside from the 60k a year number, which was puffery of wildly optimistic.
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    good question, you have to go back through a lot of years of puffery quotes to find out.:p
     
  18. dbcassidy

    dbcassidy Toyota Hybrid Nation, 8 Million Strong

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    Again, Volt - too little, too late. Classic GM.

    DBCassidy
     
  19. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    Others think the Volt is too much, too early.

    I think it's fine because there are enough people for whom it is a better choice than their other existing alternatives today.
     
  20. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    I'd love to have one!!
    I'm especially pleased that the V2 is cheaper (by about $1500) than the V1, even with the re-design.

    Unfortunately, even with an MSRP of 33K and the Fed kickback, I can't strike a check for one juuuuuust yet.

    It will be interesting to see what happens to the remaining inventories of the V1.
    I'm already seeing prices that are sub-30 OTD. :)