Why Didn't Toyota get a charge out of the Plug In Prius?

One of the important points about the OP article is the Prius was the first real production car with a clear possibility of becoming a PHEV. The powerful surge in third party Li-Ion PHEV conversion packs clearly identified to Toyota ( apparently adversely) and to PHEV supporters (positively) that the EV/PHEV era via a production auto was now possible. Best of all, Toyota was in a clear leadership position to claim worldwide leadership in the Hybrid and Plug-In Hybrid world. High quality, high reliability and high cleanliness all from one car/ car company. The next step was easy. I knew what the next mechanical horse (PHEV) I would ride when Toyota made it available.

I expected Toyota to supply that horse instead of shoot it. If that is the OP article feeling, then I agree.

 

There are battery fanatics that are delusionally associate the EV range with their penis length.

The emission from that average cost is no cleaner than Prius. You also need to add the unsubsidized cost of battery wear. Very often overlooked.

 

I sadly have to agree w/ Zythryn - at least until (or "if") Toyota shows it's still interested in PiP's beyond a hand full of states - primarily CARB. .

 

oh hill. hill, hill, hill.

 

First does not equate to being competitive.

The traditional vehicles are still going to absolutely crush them with such a cost advantage.

It's not "real" until it is mainstream affordable.

 

Not sure there is someone in PC who qualifies to make leadership determination.

 

danny.

 

dianne.

 

erica and/or doug.

 

Ok, Only Danny, Tony, Tideland Prius and Paradox.

 

Actually I would say it is the exact opposite. Everyone in PC is here because the Prius leads in so many categories. Toyota did not get the be one of the world's largest car companies because they were good followers.

 

Now we know why there is an "Insane Mode" in BEVs,

 

Doesn't that need to also be applied to the Prius PHV? Its smaller pack may even suffer more wear. With a discharge cycle being a greater percentage of the pack's size, possibly more full charge and discharge cycles over a given time frame, and lack of an active cooling and heating for it.

 

In the US, the average carbon emissions associated with use are far lower for plug-ins.

https://greet.es.anl.gov/files/hl9mw9i7

In certain places heavy on coal, this may not be the case, and in those places a plug-in versus a hybrid would be a toss up. But for most places, the plug-ins are cleaner.

 

No matter how much data we have to show those exposures aren't an issue and how the system is different from others, there's always someone to raise doubt.

 

Even in an area with heavy coal use for power, a plugin's carbon emissions is lower than the typical new vehicle bought. It is likely also lower than the car a person may have bought instead, and the majority of plugin buyers are coming from an ICEV.

Annual Prius sales may reach a third of ICE Camry sales, and maybe a sixth of F150 sales. Other hybrid and plugin models haven't reached a half of the Prius' sales. Criticizing a plugin for emitting more CO2 on some electric grids than a Prius is missing the big picture. To lower carbon emissions for cars, you have to get the typical ICEV buyer into a hybrid, plugin, or even just a more efficient ICEV. If the Prius alone could do that, it would be selling at Camry ICE numbers already. It isn't, so we need a wider selection of these cars to draw in more of the ICEV crowd.

 

Then where is the data showing that it is an issue for a BEV with active thermal management?
Only Leafs, which just has a fan for cooling, in hot climates have had issues with premature capacity loss. I realize there it is still early to call it definitively, but there appears to be no reason at this point to say a BEV traction pack won't last the 'life' of the car.

 

Isn't "no profit" the same manta that GM used to drone-on about, as their reason for crushing their EV's? - even as they pushed Hummers & hurled head long towards bankruptcy ?

. . . . history shows SUV sales tank modernly, as soon as artificially deflated gas prices approach reality.

 

PiP battery cells are optimized for more charge/discharge cycles. It doesn't have as high energy density as EV cells. However, it was designed to put most of the miles on the gas engine anyway.

PiP does have active cooling and heating. There are two blowers that actively runs. The heating and cooling is ultimately controlled by the cabin air temp.

Volt has "HOLD" mode to prevent discharge.

Grid is getting cleaner and EVs are becoming cleaner.

50 MPG Prius emits 222 gram of CO2 per mile. 2011 Leaf emits 220 g/mi. 2013+ Leaf is down to 190 g/mi. Cleaner but not "far lower".

Not all plugins are the same. Plugins like Volt is actually dirtier than Prius. 260 g/mi. It is cleaner than Cruze Eco at 362 g/mi.