So.. is EV really cheaper than hybrid?

Gas is around $2.40 a gallon on Long Island, and electricity is 22 cents/kWh. So I'm running under 5 cents per mile on gas at my 50 MPG actual consumption measured over 19,000 miles and three summers and winters, while the electricity for the Leaf would be about 7.5 cents per mile.
I've done this calculation before and it didn't make sense even before the price of gas went down.

 

oh ya. there's nuthin but a battery and a moter.

 

I suppose I could actually burn up the inverter too ... but gas versus electricity ? Puleez. Non-issue. Many EV owners (such as myself) have the advantage of being able to charge off amortized PV systems at home. So they really don't care if gas goes down to 25¢ per gallon. See, that's still 25¢ per gallon more than many EV folk have to pay. The OP is invited to come back when they're giving it away for 95¢ per gallon. Perhaps that's the cost of respiration damage, I figure, for sucking gas and exhaust fumes .... and the inconvenience to have to drive somewhere else to get gas ... and the inconvenience of having to sit 15 minutes in a Costco gas line .... nevermind the inconvenience of smog checks, oil changes, pollution control valve, tranny fluid, tuneup parts & labor, Valdez / DeepWater Horizon disasters, oil wars, etc etc. I'm sure that's more than an adequate offset for some.

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unfortunately, for us losers in the northeast, electricity is going up faster than gas is coming down.

 

I duno . . . usbseawolf2000 is up there in the NE and his PV system will be commissioned shortly. He's got a thread ongoing in the plugin PiP topics. Should we straighten him out? or - could it be possible .... he was going through with it for reasons other than this season's cheep gas?

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We are paying $2.69/gallon for gas right now, it did go down to about $2. I filled up yesterday in the mountains for over $3/gallon but it is always more pricey in the middle of nowhere. My electric rates are 11.4c/kwh including all taxes, fees, distribution charges, etc. If I take my monthly electric only bill and divide by raw consumed kwh's, it is $157.59/1378KWh = 11.4c/KWh this month. I actually consume far greater than this, but I have 11KW of PV on the roof.

I get about 3.5mi/KWh and I drive it like I stole it. ($0.114 / KWh) * (1KWh / 3.5mi) = $0.0326/mi
In my 2006 Prius I get about 48mpg. Taking the best price I have seen in the past year of $2/gallon I get: ($2 / gallon) * (1 gallon / 48 miles) = $0.0416/mi.

Taking actual current rates of $2.69/gallon, it works out to $0.056/mi. So not taking into account that my PV is free electricity and I could make my cost/mi $0 on the Leaf, the Leaf wins. The Prius is awesome, but the Leaf wins.

Add to that when I looked at a new Prius, I could not buy the PiP in my state but I could order one. Even a regular gas only Prius was about $22K to $28K depending on options I wanted. In comparison I got a brand new Leaf with every option, completely decked out, for $34K. Take off $7.5K federal and $6K state, I got a brand new top of the line Leaf for $20.5K, which is $3.5K less than we paid for the Prius C a year earlier.

 

wow! no wonder you're driving it like you stole it

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You got that right!!!

DBCassidy

 

My EV miles averaged 135 MPGe (4 mi/kWh or 250Wh/mi) and 54 MPG on gas.

At 18 cents/kWh, my break even point was $2.20 gas. I stopped charging when the gas priced dipped for a few months.

Government and utility incentives are giving me free solar panels and the electricity generated from it, to cover my home and PiP usage. I would be a fool not to take it. I do need to have $25k to get this system installed (eventually get my money back later).

This would make my PiP EV miles free but PV energy priority is to cover home electricity usage first, then car next.

Is it sustainable? No, but I was offerred something I could not refused. Will I be biased toward EV? No. I will continue to use each fuel when advantageous, responsibly.

Natural gas for home heating and cooking. Electricity for home and short EV drives. Gas for longer or winter (cabin heat) drives.

 

The recent 2012-2015 EV era has been a golden opportunity for EV's...it's hard to imagine such as rosy future. We had a period of really high gas prices, really low electric prices, enormous incentives in some states (WA, CA, GA, NJ, CO) and since the EV sales were not red hot, low selling costs from the manufacturers. So my feeling is in some states such as WA, Leaf is cheap good quality wheels.

I tried to say all along the gaso/elect ratio price is at a historic high and may not continue. I think I was first here to predict $2 gaso and a few commenters said no way. If you're following the news, gaso prices have no where to go but down down down ...already ticked down on the national avg. Dare I predict $1 gaso by February 2016?

(OK some states $1 gaso by Feb 2016...sorry you states with high gaso taxes approaching $1 you will be higher)

 

Perhaps another round of tax increases kicked in, but Pa has gone up about 20 cents from the winter low.

 

PA has surpassed CA as the highest state gaso taxes, but CA added in a "hidden" carbon tax, so I am not sure CA has truely relinquished the title. They just decided to hide it.

 

Some areas there is NO contest. This is an image from a DC Fast Charger I recently used:


Plus there are dozens of free L2's around town also.

I started a new thread concerning my new BEV: Tesla Lite !! = Chevy Spark EV | PriusChat

 

Here in NYC, I figure I pay about 25 cents per kwh. I could be wrong, but I figure it costs me about $4 in electricity to fully charge my iMiev, which yields me about 75 miles (less in the winter). There are NO free charging stations around here. So, this is slightly better than my cost per mile on my 2010 Prius at $4.00 gas....BUT...if you own an EV, you cannot depend on it for long trips, and so you must have another car, which is another expense.

I did not exactly buy an EV just to save money. I enjoy the silent motion, the technology, and the lack of local emissions. I would buy an EV again, but I would love a range of 100 miles.

To me, the Tesla is not a viable alternative. It has way too many batteries to tote around for local driving which is 90% of what I do, and probably what most people do.

 

ok, I bit .... went to the thread & commented. But I didn't think of one thing ... what kind of electricity generation/source power do you Kansas folk primarily have ... CNG? .... hydro? .... coal? Just curious.
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hill,

This answers that question for anyone: How clean is the electricity I use? - Power Profiler | Clean Energy | US EPA

KC is around 78% coal, yuk, but higher than average wind. And I see windmill blades going down the highway all the time!
And I like to beat the drum that electricity is 'home grown'. No American dollars are going to OPEC.
And they beat the drum about bringing democracy to 'certain' countries, but we are best buddies with Saudi.

 

If GHG is your concern, at 260g/mi CO2, the Spark EV is still way under the average for a new vehicle in Kansas. It is also less than the ICEV version.
Compare Side-by-Side
Beyond Tailpipe Emissions: Results

 

You should have said, "if you own a Miev...".
That is also dependent upon what you mean by "long trips" and what area you live in.
If 200 miles qualifies as "long" you can do that in any area with DC chargers. That isn't a lot of areas yet, but it is growing.

And for a Tesla, well, let's just say that I disagree.
From a purely efficiency standpoint, even with all the extra batteries the Tesla is more efficient than any gas car. From the CO2 standpoint, it depends upon your power source.