Prius Plug-in Hybrid Update

PiP battery just gets air blown past if from the passenger space fan on the passenger side of the rear seat (channeled back over the pack).

Tesla style has liquid cooling and fire retardant gel that aren't present in the Toyota package. Switching to the more effective cooling scheme will reduce temps due to high charge / discharge rates.

At the same time the new battery could be much larger capacity in kWh also helping the relative C rate for charging / discharging.

Doubling the kWh halves the relative C rate and I see no reason not to substantially increase the kWh in the Toyota PHV.

take this slide about the Volt and apply the same logic for Toyota. Whether they do it with Panasonic, LG Chem, or someone else they should be improving the product.



Chevy went from a 16 kWh pack to a 18.4 kWh pack. They didn't bother increasing the capacity much, instead they lowered weight in place of some of the possible capacity increase.

Toyota has sold the Prius with a 4.4 kWh pack (3.4 Kwh usable) for far too long. They could easily increase the capacity with no form factor change and I'd argue they should change the form factor and increase the capacity further than just the amount they would get from newer cell chemistry.

 

Well there are many different types of li-ion batteries I was referring specificity to Model S cells.

A123 cells are also li-ions and they can easily withstand 20C, they are also used in race car KERS system where they are abused in the 100 C region and they still last 24 hours of LeMans in Porshe 919 hybrid.

 

I will keep my 2012 rice rocket Plug-in Prius and trade my 2010 Audi Q7 TDI in for the 2016 Audi Q7 TDI e-tron TDI Hybrid (IF and when they would release it in the U.S. - they are now only going to release a gasoline version in the U.S.) 2016 Audi Q7 e-Tron Quattro Diesel Plug-In Hybrid: Live Photos From Geneva Motor Show . IF and when it will get released in the U.S. They are now saying it will not be released as a diesel hybrid in the U.S. for now and only in Europe.

 

So, not being a close follower of the car industry, I'm not sure what the posts about ceasing production mean. Does that production ceasing for the 2015 next month suggest we'll see the next model of PIP coming sooner than a 2017 model? ie. There will be a 2016 model by early 2016? Or will it be an early 2017, in mid 2016? (Our Canadian 2012s didn't appear until the fall of 2012.)

Either way though, I'll likely be keeping my 2012 with Canadian Technology Package (which is almost identical to the US Advanced with Technology Package), since I just bought it a couple of months ago and it still has less than 20000 miles on it.

Our next car will be an update for my wife's Yaris. She wants the 2016 RAV4 hybrid.

Agree with the 20-25 mile range, and agree with the EV threshold at 70 mph, with more throttle being needed to switch out of EV.

Higher mpg and MPGe would be nice, but I'm happy enough with it right now.

Charge port in front would be better for me too overall, but not critical. Best for me would be to have it on the front passenger side panel.

I consider better heat in EV a major issue, considering I live in Canada. Also a big improvement would be electrical pre-heating when the car is plugged in, controlled by that climate button on the FOB.

The thing about HVAC settings immediately pulling the car out of EV is something I find really annoying, esp. since the car won't switch back to EV immediately even if you change that HVAC setting back.

The surround car view would be awesome. The RAV4 announcement said it was coming to all Toyota cars eventually, and hopefully, the Prius Plug-in will be amongst the first to get that option after the RAV4.

What I would also like to see is a better quality backup camera if possible, and a grid option on the backup screen.

 

^^^We don't know what Toyota is thinking obviously. I posted in another thread Toyota is shifting production to sell more RAV4 and Sienna etc which are selling like hot cakes at the moment. Could be the existing supply of new PiPs including new production to June lasts for a while, considering end of CA green stickers and expiration of leases. More and more I am thinking what happened to PiP is FORD CMax and Fusion Energi eating PiP's lunch; whereas lunch is CA green HOV stickers. In the end Plug_ins sales not as strong as hoped the sales are highly Fed/state rebate dependent. PiP was lowest possible incentive.

 

3 years is "far too long?"

 

Yeah, can there be a software upgrade to use 4 kWH instead of 3.4?

 

I thought the whole point of this was to protect the battery life.

 

The disconnect between engineer want and business need is an oversight we have to deal with routinely.

The cost of a mid-cycle change is extremely difficult to justify.

Waiting for next-gen release is the better choice.

 

Might be too simplistic view, but Powerwall @ 7kWh has roughly the same dimensions as the Prius battery pack (which I guess includes the charger too). Not sure what the top current draw on a Prius is, but powerWall has 10 year warranty with daily cycling @ 2kW draw.

Also, the plugin conversions costs over 6-8K for the battery pack, powerwall is 3K, opportunities? (to burn down the car??)

 

This could be exciting. If 3.3 is usable now and the battery gets upgraded to 6.6 with higher efficiency, we could be looking at 22 miles EV easily. I would **love** that and trade my PiP in a heartbeat especially if it's 58 mpg as well (which more sites are reporting as the efficiency of the 4th gen)

 

Considering the Volt upgraded the batteries for the 3rd MY, it can be seen that way.

 

I would like a replacement battery pack to my current PIP!! I hope car manufacturers make the battery packs easily replaceable so that some people who keep their cars 10-15 years can upgrade the battery capacity as newer technologies are developed.

Leaf dealers advise people to lease because the battery tech is changing, what a waste of resources when the older cars needs to be junked because no one will want the older leafs (people report lower battery capacity within 3 years).

 

you can see it any way you want, but reasonable people might disagree. there are too many people who try to make it a competition between pip and volt, when there's really very little in common. i suppose if they post their anger here, they think priusteam hair is going to catch on fire.

 

It was a minor upgrade done at a loss.

That's not good business.

 

That's what I'm trying to say (in a way). Build the second gen PiP with easily removeable and upgradeable battery packs. Some people might choose to fill the trunk with 5 layers and get 100 miles EV because they want to. Some might just be fine with the standard 20. There are times where I would want 100 miles EV and wouldn't mind losing the trunk space. Versatility is the key as well as consumer option! Maybe I want to shuttle around 5 people with little trunk space! Let us choose and create infinite configurations...and then when new battery tech comes out we can upgrade without losing much space. Maybe let us config with a spare tire also!

 

the first company to do this at 30k wins.

 

I doubt you will get linear increase with additional packs, then again the spare tire may be warranted if one goes that route. 5 packs in the trunk is going to make Prius a 2 wheeler, so we will need rear wheel drive and the spare tire to protect the rear from hitting the road (kind like how they have it on the garbage trucks). With just 3 tires hitting the road, 33% less rolling resistance, 100 miles EV maybe possible, and as a side benefit, you get ample space to keep 2 spares in the front wheel wells!!

 

i'm assuming the next gen is a complete redesign from the ground up. still adding weight has to be taken seriously from a safety/engineering point of view. heck, these guys even think about the weight of the 12v and where it's placed.

 

Did they skip the 2015 model?

I count it as

1st year is the 2012 model
2nd year is the 2013 model
3rd year is the 2014 model
4th year is the 2015 model

and didn't they pretty much say there won't be a 2016 model or imply that the 2016 model will be delayed for the refresh?

I'd also add that they didn't do the PiP with the 2010 model and 2011 model as we in the Prius community expected and asked for.

So to me the 4.4 kWh battery in the PiP is just a holdover from the tease in 2011 and we are already talking about 2016 or later to see an increase.

So I'm saying 5 or 6 years is far too long and they didn't put a big enough battery in it to begin with or I wouldn't be counting.