4th generation coming 2015!

I'll say it again: Let's hope the 4th Gen Prius gets some of the styling from the 4th Gen Rav4, the interior in particular. Haven't noticed the base LE much but the XLE.
The new Rav4 is realllly sharp.
Anyone else agree?

Btw, the 4TH GEN RAV4 first went on sale inUS starting January 2013. I don't see why it would be so weird for new Prius to start selling Jan 2016. Betcha gas goes up next year.

 

I think Toyota gave us a clue about Gen IV when they showed this at the Paris Autoshow: TOYOTA C-HR Concept Report -The Paris Motor Show 2014-

Is it possible that they are also working on a small Prius SUV since SUVs are hot right now?

 

A liquid fuel tank may get a once over, or have a gas cap pressure check, as part of a state inspection, but if and how often depends upon the varying state regulations. CNG tanks used in vehicles that use the public motorways are required by federal regulation to get an annual inspection. They also have an expiration date, based on materials on construction, in which they can not be legally used. It is in the 10 to 25 year range.

Current hydrogen tanks are filled to pressures twice that of CNG ones. If CNG tanks legitimately require annual safety inspections, then there is no reason that hydrogen ones should get a pass on it. The tank life span should be good for the 'life' of the car. It is mainly a factor for resale and depreciation. A hybrid traction pack may have lost capacity, or a transmission require major repair work, in the 10 to 15 year time frame. A FCV will have to replace the hydrogen tank, regardless of condition, during that time. Expired tanks that sat in a warehouse their entire lives have to be discarded.

 

That could be possible. Honda will suppossedly be introducing a sedan and small SUV based on the Fit hybrid to North America.

 

That C-HV looks a bit of a freaky mobile. If gen4 looks anything like that, Toyota is just fishing around for what to make of the Prius.

 

Concept vehicles are supposed to be exaggerated!

 

I remember the Furia concept for the current Corolla and it wasn't so radically different.

 

it's like the runway.

 

I'm guessing the Mirai will also need air filter changes? And once the mesh starts to clog up with mould or fungus; water running down a mesh will surely grow something over time? Nice, warm, wet or damp = some nasty growing on it. That will need checking or removing? Like an a/c service, but for a £30k system.

Against petrol vehicles you could use European service intervals of 18k/20k miles or 24 months for an oil change, then you're not far off a fuel cell servicing levels of time?

One needs oil and filters and coolant changing, the other needs filters and coolant changing and annual tank safety inspections. The latter will prove costly here due to insurance implications. Who is qualified to inspect these?

 

No, you plug in for your around-town miles. You need H2 stations like you need supercharger stations - in between town trips.

And supercharger stations are not sustainable. If you have everyone using them, instead of the tiny fraction of 1% that are now, you'd need zillions of them because they are so slow to provide energy to cars. H2 stations provide that energy on the order of 20 times faster so you need about 1/20th as many fuel pumps as you need superchargers. You need the same number of locations, but you need many fewer stations at each one.

 

I get that. I'd be PO'd if 6 bays are full and have to wait to hook up before the 40 min. charge. Tough to see gobs of EVers road tripping. Maybe they could just build more to meet demand.

No matter what, I'm all for zero emissions vehicles. Just because most exhaust is invisible does not mean it's harmless.

 

The interview with the Toyota exec. from over 6 mo. ago included him saying they were -going- to do AWD in the new Prius. Possibly as an option, but that wasn't stated explicitly. It isn't "new technology", as it already exists in the Highlander Hybrid (for just one example), where they added a third MG, attached to the input of a rear diff. AND, due to the "low power" of this third MG (or the limitation of current available to supply it), the Highlander Hybrid says in the owners manual "not intended for off-road use".
Just in case some of you were planning to take your GIV Prius over the "Rubicon" pass.

 

That all depends on the grid range of the PFCV. You mentioned 40 miles before. The Volt is about that, and enough Volt owners use the ICE on local trips that a PFCV with such range will require local stations. A PFCV will likely need a 100 mile EV range before hydrogen stations can be needed for long trips only. Packaging that into a car will be difficult currently.

I see the confusion. You are using station to refer to a single pump. I'm using station for the location.

So yes, you will need fewer dispensing pumps, but those pumps are the low cost item of a hydrogen infrastructure. The compressors, tanks, and chillers(freezers) are the high ticket items of a station/location. Then there is the cost of just getting the hydrogen. Those higher price items aren't getting reduced if you need the same number of locations.

We can't overlook the fact that a hydrogen station can only fill a limited number cars in a 10 hr day. The stations California is building for over a million dollars each appear to be mostly 100kg stations with 4 dispensers. FCVs have tanks sizes in the 4 to 50 kg range. So these stations can fill 20 to 25 cars in a day. I'll say 40 PFCVs because they'll have smaller tanks. Perhaps more, but refill times will be close that for a BEV.

For the price of one of those stations, two Supercharger ones can be built with 8 chargers each. With parking and plugging in, it could take 45min. for a Tesla to get 200miles of range. Those two stations can handle over 200 cars in 10 hours, but only a little over 16 an hour.

With pulling up and hooking up to the dispenser, It will take the PFCV 5 min to fill. With 4 dispensers, the station could potentially fill 48 cars and hour, at least in theory. With that amount of traffic, the fill rates will get a little longer. No big deal, I'm sure we have all pulled up to a busy gas station where the pumps weren't filling at max rate. The big deal is that the station ran out of hydrogen for filling soon after the 40th car. Best case after that is it giving partial fills at near the same rate as the Supercharger. Worse case is that the station is down for half a day as the compressor refills the dispensing tank.

BEVs bottleneck with the recharge time. FCVs will bottleneck at the station's car capacity. Larger hydrogen stations can be built, but at higher cost.

Considering level of the telematics on a Tesla, your car could probably tell you if the Supercharger station you planned to use is, and divert you to one that isn't. You likely could make charger reservations in the future also.

The "not intended for off road use" is a disclaimer for the ICE Highlander as well. It is just a tall Camry wagon after all.

 

Sorry if I overlooked the hybrid detail. This conversation has been occurring over several pages. You are of course speaking about comparisons under ideal conditions, which for hydrogen is largely theoretical.

 

Except you have to pay for the fuel, which where I live will no doubt be taxed highly. Electricity isn't, and you can easily generate it yourself with solar pv.

Hydrogen fcv's exist purely so Shell, Texaco etc can continue to sell you something and Governments to tax it.

 

What's the source of this information? Is it just a speculation? H2 can be generated from many fuel sources.

 

In fact, in Iceland there is -a- hydrogen station powered from solar electric panels. Makes H2 from water by electrolysis. I saw it on TV so it must be true!

 

It can, but it won't without government intervention, and people willing to pay for it.

The California government is intervening in their market, but they are hiding the hydrogen cost from the end consumer.

Being reliant on energy imports, Japan will likely go with whatever is convenient for them. Which will mostly be by price, and thus likely coal. So Shell and Texaco may not benefit there. I'm sure they'll use some local renewables; that likely will only displace a small portion of other hydrogen sources.

Iceland has an abundance of geothermal energy, I believe. FCVs might work out there using electrolysis for hydrogen. Being a small island nation, means the conversion losses of converting electric into hydrogen over just charging a plugin doesn't matter to them as much.

 

Just like electricity isn't it? It is mainly from fossil fuel now.

At least in California, H2 is 30% from renewable that far exceed that of electricity mix there.