Should Toyota release PiP Gen2 nationwide, if...

For the OP's question, yes, Toyota should offer the PPI nationwide.
The consumer's choice isn't the Prius or the PHV. It is about 5 alternate fuel vehicles(hybrids, plugins, and even diesels) to 90+ straight up ICE gas cars and trucks. The average CO2 emissions of new cars sold is 480g/mi; over twice what the PPI would emit on a grid with 80% coal under typical use. That is even more than the Leaf on the same grid. A V8 Tundra ranges from 640g/mi to 725g/mi.

Worrying about the carbon emissions of plugins on a less than perfect grid is the proverbial rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Want to pull down that average CO2 emission, offer the people all the low carbon choices you can.

The Prius was designed for low emissions; that is, NOx, CO, hydrocarbons, etc., the directly harmful pollutants. If low GHG was the goal, Toyota could have let those pollutant emissions climb a little for better overall fuel economy. Its pollutant levels are extremely low. The only way to easily get the air cleaner around a running Prius is to plug it in. Letting those go up a little for reducing CO2 emissions would not lead to any harm. They also could have skipped the tank bladder on the gen2.

 

The PIP model was designed to fit the "zero emissions mandate" the CARB states required so they could sell "any" vehicles in those states. Toyota doesn't really care about emissions, they were forced to. They care about sales.

 

Likewise, the current ZEV credit structure allows them to meet their quota with selling less cars by going with a FCV than a BEV.

 

I'm asea with the above. The last one's "battery/electric vehicle". The other two, no clue.

Ok, a little more head scratching: ZEV equals Zero Emissions Vehicle.

One to go.

 

Right on the BEV. FCV is fuel cell vehicle.

Also right on ZEV, but it actually doesn't apply to a class of car, but CARB's(Ca Air Resource Board, just in case ) program for getting zero tail pipe emission cars sold in the state. The first round of the program got the EV1 and first Rav4 EV built. The current one uses ZEV credits to persuade manufacturers to sell the cars. If they don't reach their quota of credits, they have to buy them off of somebody that has excess or pay fines. The amount a certain earns has been recently changed to favor the FCVs over the BEVs. A FCV also earns a bonus number of credits for the fast refuel time. When Tesla debuted their battery swap system, that actually swapped out a 85kWh with a fresh one faster than a FCV can refuel, the regulations were rewritten to exclude battery swapping from the fast refuel credits.

Plugin hybrids(PHV) earn no ZEV credits at all. With the Mirai earning more credits per sale, Toyota doesn't have to sell as many as they would have with the now cancelled Rav4 EV to meet their quota.

 

Well here's something else to consider for plug-ins and why the 2nd Gen PiP should be sold nationwide, although the article specifically mentions EVs:

Hidden Benefits Of Electric Cars, Even More "Environmentally Friendly" Than Previously Thought | CleanTechnica

 

agreed. but that benefit is from a public policy point of view, not from the manufacturer. toyota will release the pip nationwide, when it makes sense from their point of view. and we'll never really know what that is. but you're right, in regard to the op's proposition.

 

I've got a 2010 Prius III and have toying with the idea of selling it & buying a PiP. My problem was when looking at it on the Toyota site it said the EV mode was only 11 miles. I thought when it cam out it was closer to 17 miles. I would like some more range but wonder what the next gen PiP2 will offer. Have any details been released? When will we see it to buy? This summer? There seem to be very few PiP on the local Portland Toyota lots but I also thought that maybe a killer deal could be had. My other thought was looking at a Prius C too since it's mainly driven by my wife or with us both in it. Looking for some advice from those that know. Thanks in advance.

 

Looked at buying a PiP but it wasn't available in the state. Was going to import one from CA, but for the price it didn't make sense. My 2006 Prius looks and runs great still getting 45mpg at 100mph highway driving with winter tires. A Leaf comes with $7500 fed and $6000 state rebates. So the Leaf is the daily driver and the Prius the weekend warrior and mountain goat.

 

On the EPA test the PPI is rated 11 EV miles with a little bit of gas as the engine kicks on for one of the acceleration events. Out on the street it could go further by going easy on the pedal.
The next gen one is scheduled to come out a year after the gen4 Prius, which hasn't had any real details released yet.

 

Real world I get about 10-11 miles on electricity alone on my PiP in decent weather, unless I try hypermiling type techniques, but that's annoying. Maybe you were thinking 17 km? Or maybe you were reading posts from people who tried such techniques to max out the distance?

Personally, if I were in your shoes with a 2010 Prius, I'd wait to see the Gen IV Prius, and then wait potentially another year to see the Gen II Plug-in Prius. Now is the wrong time to buy a Prius IMO. The only reason I did recently was because I needed a car right now (as my previous one was in an accident). Indeed, my biggest beef with my PiP is the EV range. Ten miles is OK for me, but I'd much prefer 25, even at a price premium if that premium wasn't too much.

Similarly, last month was the wrong time to buy a RAV4 unless you really needed it, because the announcement of the new RAV4 was just around the corner. Even though we wanted to buy a RAV4 (as our second car to replace the Yaris which is now too small for us), we waited, and were very glad we did, because now we know a hybrid AWD RAV4 is coming in 2016. We will wait to buy that model. We are willing to wait because we know it will come in well under a year, and we have a functional (albeit small) car to use in the interim.

For me, the Prius c is a non-starter. Too small, and you already have a Prius.

 

It wasn't a km rating. I just thought I remembered seeing 17 mile range. I hate the idea of getting one too with the new one around the corner. I was hoping for a killer deal & that maybe think about it. I do hate the thought of having to wait 2 more years for the new PiP2 but that is the best idea.

The PriusC was just a thought. If we did a PiP or PriusC I would sell the one we currently own. 70% of the miles on the Prius are from my wife driving it alone so that's why I thought about the PriusC. Very seldom are people even in the backseat. I remember seeing that people were getting better MPG in the PriusC than the standard Prius even though they are both rated at 50 MPG combined.

 

How are you getting 45 MPG going 100 mph? And with winter tires? I've never heard of MPG in those conditions. I get 45 MPG with my winter tires doing 60-65 with some city driving too. I actually toyed with a used Leaf. They had a lot of used lease ones for $12995 with 20-25k miles on them. Seemed like a killer deal.

 

Another very low tech to save gas consumption AND greatly reduce traffic: CARPOOL to work. Oh, but that's highly unpopular (with oil companies) and just too inconvenient (because people always have to go somewhere on the way home) Yeah sure. Most of the time I go straight to work and come straight home.

 

Yup, I always took the bus, and of late the train, commuting to work. Did carpool one time when taking a course, for about 6 months.

Even at $200 for a 4 week train ticket, it was the way to go. Doesn't work for everyone, but if you've got a regular commute and transit or carpool is an option, go for it.

 

They should do what makes sense for Toyota. Toyota is not a charity organization. Toyota will sell fewer green cars if TM starts having financial problems. Furthermore, for me, the goal is to use less gasoline because of all of the world wide negatives associated with oil. Clean electricity will follow faster than EV cars will catch on.

 

Yes they should sell nationwide.

1. Average car age is around 11 years
2. Solar PV is on the rise

Think of all the homes in 2025 that could easily charge a PiP on solar power. Some could do it now in 2015 but every year we progress forward the market for home charging EVs from Solar PV increases.

Personally I want to buy a used PiP. There aren't enough of them on the market to be competitive in price vs just getting a Leaf.

So in the end my transition curve will be Prius -> Leaf -> Some other BEV (maybe a Tesla, maybe something else with a 150+ mile range).

But if the PiP were sold en mass I would have liked to do the Prius -> PiP -> BEV transition.

If they don't make them those of us in the flyover states never have a chance to buy them new and they aren't cheap enough or plentiful enough to work their way around the country on the auction circuit.