Please give me suggestions and help

The VCI has advantages over the other systems if you wish to work on the Prius. Brake bleeding, Steering zero point calibration, Brake solenoid calibration, Key fob programming, and removal of, plus a multitude of test on the HV battery, engine running,and various pumps and fan running programs. You also have access to things like airbag ecu, and variable programmable features with the SKS, AC, Lighting, and beeps.

John (Britprius)

 

Advantages every one,
but all Laura wants is to find the cause of the alert and make it go away.

 

Perhaps I should state I am not against other systems. For monitoring perimeters while towing I use Torque. I also on occasions use Priidash.

John (Britprius)

I was responding to a question from Laura about the VCI and Laura stated in that post that she was willing to learn how to use it. Again though the VCI also points you in the direction of what to check by not only giving the code and sub code, but giving a note of possible cause.

John (Britprius)

 

About scanners, we often have to choose between: GOOD, FAST, CHEAP . . . pick two:

	model	good	fast	cheap
1	miniVCI	most complete	not while driving	~$35 + laptop with older Windows
2	autoenginuity	mostly complete	not while driving	$500 + laptop with any Windows
3	scangauge II	30 metrics; 4 displayed; no recording; programmable	driving aid	~$150-200
4	OBD + Android	??	??	~$55 + Android device (*)
5	miniscanner	~50; 4 displayed; 6 recorded	driving aid	only used; ~300 ever made

I don't have any hands-on with the Android so I really don't know. I get the impression it has more capabilities and easier programming than the XGAUGE of the scangauge II. But both need external programming of the OBD commands and responses. I'm not sure either makes sense for a newbie but they are small and well contained.

There is no single, best answer and I didn't get the impression Laura is a computer or technology Goddess. So I've advocated the miniVCI because it works and doesn't have a lot of setting up.

Now if she'd said something like,"I'm only getting 65 MPG on the rural mail route in our 2002 Prius and would like to step it up . . ." well the Android, Scangauge and miniscanner would make sense.

Or if she said,"I've had a good time this morning replacing the power steering assembly and I'd like pick-up some egg money reworking auction Prius in the garage" well the miniVCI or autoenginuity would make sense. (Google "Lucious Garage")

Bob Wilson

* - Reported by Sagebrush as I have no direct experience.

 

I own Torque, the Android phone app. IIRC it cost $5
I bought a relatively expensive Bluetooth ODBII adapter, IIRC ~ $50. I figured if there was a weak link, the dongle would be it.

The Torque app will read out engine codes without any programming. I cannot remember if a diagnosis tree is also provided, but the codes are easily looked up in a Google search.

I have read that an App for iPhone also exists and works well, but I have no personal experience.

 

I'm interested in supporting Laura's NHW11 repair so I would only recommend tools and techniques that I own and have used with our 2003 Prius. But it is fair to identify other diagnostic systems such as 'Torque:'

I updated my table with your costs. Granted prices change over time so I've listed it as approximate.

Is there someone who uses their Android with our NHW11? I have no problem with updating the table.

In the interest of giving the product a full review, I started with:

• Torque — OBD2 Performance and Diagnostics for your Vehicle - home page
  
• NHW11 uses ISO 9141-2, a specific subset of OBD II - I found auto-discovery with Autoenginuity would test the CAN-style protocol and this 'spikes' the brake ECU. The auto-discovery generates false errors but this can be handled by forcing ISO 9141.
• Extensive thread in 2013 on Torque and our NHW11: Scangauge or Torque App? | PriusChat

Maybe JeffF is still around and might fill in the blanks?

I'm not trying to be difficult and I do have an iPhone from work. So I'm OK with trying either a bluetooth or wifi adapter. Because I already have a working miniVCI, we really need to find someone who is already using it to provide:

1. Configuration - what make/model of OBD interface and Android device. For example, I have a first generation iPad and employer provided iPhone 5. So it is hard for me to advocate 'Torque' if it is not going to work on a system that I will own after retiring (I'm already 65 years old.)
2. Demonstrate communications with - HV ECU reporting sub-codes and MG1 and MG2 temperatures; traction battery ECU reporting 19 module pair voltages and current, and; brake ECU reporting the various codes. I'm not trying to be difficult but the 'Torque' app appears to be focused on acceleration and engine operation. It isn't clear there is demonstrated diagnostic support for the NHW11 Prius.

If someone wants to advocate 'Torque' for diagnosis of this Prius, feel free to step up. But be fair and prepared to show Laura and additional codes and tools needed to read traction battery voltages, transaxle temperatures, and HV ECU subcodes. Measuring acceleration in a broken NHW11 would not be terribly useful and having to spend a day searching and loading and testing 'Torque' codes while the car is broke . . . is that a good idea?

Bob Wilson

 

Bob,
I should have mentioned that the cars I have used Torque with are the Gen2 and Gen3. You are quite right in pointing out that Laura's car is a Gen1. I'll have to defer to others how well the smartphone Apps work with the Gen1 car.

Regarding costs: if a person does not already have an Android or iPhone then this diagnostic setup strays from cheap, which was half the reason to advocate its use.

Ease of use: Pulling engine codes in Torque is pre-programmed; pre-programmed performance data is really easy. You just pick a gauge. Many of the available performance gauges have to be imported into the App for use, but that is pretty straightforward ever since USBseawolf made a file of them: the user just imports the text file into Android.

-----

• I don't know how long it takes to receive VCI in the mail. For dongle it is anywhere from overnight to a couple days depending on shipping choice.
• I have no experience using VCI/TS, but I have read reports here on PriusChat of defective cables (since for most part people are buying a non-Toyota Chinese clone,) and problems installing the bootleg software -- I think related to software revisions and/or Windows version and/or using the cracker key. IIRC at least some of the bootleg software has been infected by malware, so a dedicated or virtual OS strikes me as a heartfelt recommendation.
• This is the dongle I bought: OBDLink™ LX Bluetooth | OBDLink™ – OBD Solutions

I am not against VCI/TS at all in general; I do tend to think that for a person ringing in to PriusChat with car alarms flashing and no clue what is going on and what to do, this approach is a pretty steep first step before even engine codes can be pulled. I think that a better approach towards the non-technical owner with a broken car is to first pull engine codes in the easiest and cheapest manner possible; and then if performance data is required, install the extra gauges e.g. in Torque, or head to the dealer.

 

Granted this is us gear-heads 'talking shop:'

I'm OK with that which also applies to having an XP or 32 bit rated, Windows OS.

We agree on the goal which is why my 'fast' is aimed more at setup, operation, and completeness:

• miniVCI - pretty much a Techstream pirate, it requires nothing beyond load software, plug-in car, and plug-in PC USB port running Windows XP or equivalent. I identified the "horse" variant that works in both our NHW11 and ZVW30 Prius. A non-horse variant bought on Ebay did not work on our ZVW30. The Chinese vendor of a working miniVCI called it a 'clone' . . . no comment on their Techstream. I sent that one to our Pacific island, Prius owner but never heard if he got it and used it.
• Autoenginuity - independent of the Techstream, it is designed for an independent shop and works on all known Prius. But the $500 purchase price is a little steep for a private owners and there is an annual maintenance fee, ~$50.
• Graham miniscanner - also plug and play, it only covers HV ECU, engine ECU, and battery ECU for only 50 metrics.
• Scangauge II - needs XGAUGE definitions for a maximum of 30 at one time. Entering XGAUGEs is as complex as a phone SMS message but requires finding the hexadecimal definitions. Also, there is the ISO-9141 'spike' problem that requires a special cable or my pig-tail hack. Thereafter it is plug-and-play but only shows 4 values at one time.
• Torque+Android - I know Vincent worked it with his NHW11 but he moved on to a Prius c. I'm not against this approach but I don't have 'hands on.' If someone has used 'Torque' to read NHW11 codes at least as extensive as the Scangauge II, I would be OK with that. Good Prius friend Chapman may have and I was hoping he might jump in.

Laura has a Prius showing codes and helping her diagnose and fix or coordinate fixing the Prius is our first priority. Just I don't have the experience, hardware, or software with Torque to resolve how to use it with her or even my own NHW11 operation. In contrast, I have the first four with one exception(*).

Bob Wilson

* - My virtual PC image that held the "Autoenginuity" was lost to a blackmailing hacker. The b*stards called my home and tried to ask if I had a PC that wasn't working. 'No, our Macs are working just fine.' Then they offered to fix the PC 'for a fee.' Since Autoenginuity also had a maintenance subscription fee coming up, that was an easy decision. I had kept the image around thinking I might get one of those PC virus removing programs if they came available for less than the Autoenginuity fee. Instead, I just wiped out the image and never looked back . . . I already hated Windows (buy cheap, fix forever, virus host, pay again, again, again.) <GRINS>

 

^^
What is the 'horse' variant ?

Btw, Jeff posted here
Scangauge or Torque App? | Page 5 | PriusChat
a CSV file of PIDs for the Gen1. It would be nice to ask him or Chap if engine codes are available straight away. I presume so, but that is a guess.

I do understand and agree with your point that the Torque app should be verified against some gold standard like the VCI/TS before it is recommended for use by non-technical folk. I have an Android phone with Torque on it that I am happy to loan you for a month or two, if you are inclined to try it out on your Gen1 Prius. And if my daughter ever returns the dongle, I can loan you it too. The Chinese sourced dongles are under $20.

Cheers

 

That is the original source of the OBD2 dongle, all thge others are attempted clones of the "horse"

The dongle that comes with the VCI should work with Torque, but a bluetooth variant is more convenient. You should be able to run Torque on a Windows or a Macintosh computer if you install "Bluestacks" (a virtual emulator of an Android phone).

JeffD

 

I started a new thread to go over the Torque/Android testing. Let's keep this one focused on supporting Laura. <GRINS>

Bob Wilson

 

Can I share too?

Evidently, I was rescued as a baby from the wreckage of my parents single engine plane when it crashed into the deep forests of the Pacific Northwest. I have only a torn burnt picture of Jack Nicholson as Randal Patrick McMurphy and a locket that contains a picture of a bathroom plunger as saved mementos of any life that may of existed for me at birth. I keep both under Plexiglas, along with a baseball autographed by Wilt Chamberlain that simply says...#1000 Wilt.

I was adopted by a Sasquatch family that raised me as their own. They taught me how to phase in and out of dimensions of time and space, as well as how to scare the hell out of campers. But as I grew, the smallness of my feet, along with my relative lack of body hair became divisive. I had a Sasquatchian Brother that was jealous of my ability to whistle, as well as combative in regards to my desire to occasionally bath and wear clothes I fashioned from the leaves and fibers found in the forest.

One day, I got too close to a group of young people protesting the cutting down of Old Growth Tree's and accidentally became chained to a 1000 year old Douglas Fir. After 6 days of grunting where authorities mistakenly thought I was involved in a hunger strike, I eventually was cut loose but arrested. Except for my difficulties in mastering English I blended in almost seemlessly with the protesters in jail. This is where I learned about bongo's and communal showers. Eventually the entire group was released.

This is when I found myself in the heart of a major city. In an effort to survive I immediately gained employment at a Jiffy Lube. I was basically the managers convenient excuse every time they got caught filling a vehicle with bulk dino oil, when the customer had paid and asked for full synthetic. "Hey Sasquatch Boy...you put the wrong oil in" was a lie that often got screamed at me in an effort to make the management look good. This is also why I love Toyota Customer Care...and refuse to change my own oil.


The Sasquatch love efficiency. And they are truly masters of harmony with nature, except perhaps when they are defecating or darting in front of campers lost on logging roads. But it was this upbringing that lead me to investigate The Prius. Which in turn has lead to years of Prius Chat contribution.

So as you can see....I'm just a normal guy, with a normal past. A story heard 1000 times.

 

A ScanGauge out of the box will read all the standard OBD-II PIDs and the engine DTCs ... most of the time. Last night my MIL actually came on and I tried reading the code with the ScanGauge (which was already plugged in and sitting on the dash), and it came back with P0000. So I plugged in another OBD-II scanner and got the real code.

If I remember right, Vincent investigated why it sometimes didn't get the code, and found that it sends a 'broadcast' query for codes, instead of one addressed to the engine ECU specifically, and if one of the other computers happens to respond faster (even to say "everything's peachy, no codes for me") then the ScanGauge shows the earliest response even if a later one has real codes.

Vincent then crafted some XGAUGEs to pull the engine DTCs by addressing the engine ECU directly, solving that problem, but I never got around to keying those into my ScanGauge ... or adding them to our vehicle database ... the open issue #2 there was a note to self to do that. Mea culpa. The time I was spending on that got slurped up by other things, and isn't looking to get unslurped for a while....

That issue #2 writeup contains a link back to PriusChat for Vincent's post where he added those XGAUGEs ... but hmm, it looks as if he might have attached files to that post originally and some PriusChat software migration may have lost them. Oh dear, entropy just won't quit, will it?

-Chap

 

Thanks Chap,

Same question, but regarding Torque on an Android smartphone ?

 

I have an Android smartphone, and I would love to try Torque, and in fact would like to write a Torque plugin that refers directly to our XML vehicle database and lets you pick any or all of the PIDs defined in it and your choice of physical units. However, to this point, I've had time to do exactly none of that, not even installing Torque to see the pretty splash screen.

-Chap

 

A volunteer raises his hand?

<GRINS>

Bob Wilson

 

Welcome Sasquatch!

You should probably check your battery fan for rampant back hair.

 

Laura, you will be able to check your hybrid battery with the mini VCI. It simple to plug into the car, at the OBDII port under the dash. Installing the Techstream software can be a little confusing, just follow the instructions, and the readme .txt files. But it does sound like your Hybrid battery is acting up. If there is a rebuilder in your area, that would be a good place to check out. Finding the cells to install in your car can be a problem. Usually a few cells go bad, but you will still have an aging battery pack. I have found that switching over to the newer Gen2 Hybrid cells is the way to go, it may cost more for this, but you will have a reliable car after that for many years to come. I'm on my second Prius 2002, and the battery was completely dead at the time of purchase. I rebuilt the hybrid pack with cells from newer Priuses, the Gen2 and the car came back to life, with no problems after that.
Good luck with your lil gem.
David

 

As stated, the VCI is a cable that plugs into your car and connects to a laptop. You install the program on the laptop, plug the cable into the connector under the dash, turn the key on, and click "connect to vehicle". Then you simply click "health check" to ask the car "what's going on?" It will give you the fault codes. Or another option is to take it to the closest Toyota dealer for someone that knows something about your car.