4th generation coming 2015!

I don't think anyone here would be content with the next Gen PIP getting an almost non existent EV range improvement.

Range like the volt has makes tons more sense as isn't the average commute something like 15-30+ miles each way??


I can't own a full EV right now as I don't have a spot to plug in but if I did and if I was in the market I'd probably rule out anything that wouldn't get me to and from work with a single full charge.

Granted the PIP is nice in that you can still get 50+ mpg after the EV battery is depleted.

 

That would be nice and we may get there some day but meanwhile....

With an EV you leave home every morning with a "full tank" whereas with an ICE you leave home on average with a little more than half a tank. At worst case, your EV is full and your ICE has maybe a 1/4 tank.

Which is why many people would probably be fine with 200-300 miles of EV range but would want an ICE with 400+miles of range.

 

If the next gen PiP got 20 miles of EPA all-electric range that would be a 100% improvement over the existing not-all-electric EPA range. That's hardly non-existent. But, yeah, more EV range is more satisfying to drive, in my opinion.

It's all a matter of balance and priorities. If you want 50 miles of range and 0-30 mph in 2.6 seconds you're going to pay a little more and give up a little more interior room. That's totally worth it for some folks but not for others.

 

I'm sorry, I keep thinking the current PIP has 20 miles of EV range.

I didn't realize it can only go 10 miles on EV, as you stated 20 miles would be a 100% improvement........

I guess that's good for city dwellers that only go on short trips, but can obviously go farther when the ice kicks in. I'm kinda ignorant to the whole plug in scene as I never considered one.

10 miles would only get me just over half way to work though.

 

I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't care about "eV" as a bullet point. I just want my next car to average 100+ MPG liquid fuel.

 

VW XL1?


It probably gets 80-100 mpg (US) if it were evaluated under EPA rules on its diesel liquid fuel (which has 15% more carbon than gasoline).

Bonus: it's also a plugin so you get about 21 miles of EPA-equivalent electric range.

Too bad it costs $140,000 and probably isn't available where you live.

 

^^ I should have clarified: under 30k USD.
I would also be happy with an EV that is rated for 120 miles range.

And no, a GM car is not a choice. I don't care how much more they lie, litigate, loan, or pollute

 

Does that basically boil down to: GM = lie, litigate, loan, or pollute? (wink,wink).

P.S. - Now you know *why* we got rid of our Cruze.

 

I don't know how to paste the Green Car Reports link, but google an article about Tesla Model S range loss. The article quotes the cost of an Tesla 85kWh pack at $44,000

I don't know how close that figure is, but if it's close, that answers every question about 400 mile EV batteries. The good news is the range is holding up quite well in Teslas.

 

It means that even if GM stopped all of the above for ever onward, there is not enough time left in my lifetime for that company to make amends for past actions.

 

Does that have to do with their actions on the EV1? I watched Who Killed The Electric Car and I saw how Ev1 lessees were begging GM just to sell them an EV1 at any cost instead of crushing them. But what seems so strange to me, is the activists begged for GM to make the car purchasable, but not one individual in the movie made any attempt in that movie to estimate how much an EV1 cost to produce or if it would have been remotely financially feasible to try to make money producing the car. There was never any talk of costs or financial feasability in that movie that I recall. Am I right or off base? As I recall the arguments for EV1 were 1) It's neat, fun, zippy car to drive 2) It doesn't pollute 3) It has few moving parts so maintenance is almost nil 4) We don't know or aren't so concerned how much it costs to produce, just make it cause we want it.

 

Nothing to do with the EV1. That was just a very expensive compliance car that any manufacturer would have killed at the first opportunity.

The long list starts with GM's involvement in the conspiracy to destroy cable car infrastructure in the major US cities in the early 20th century.
It continues with their toxic dumps, and decision to throw the mess into the taxpayer lap as part of their recent BK
Then the long list of bought politicians
Followed by litigation Vs PZEV in California
The years of lies and FUD about hybrids is just the latest frosting on the cake.

 

No you are not alone. I filled up last Wed night prior to pulling home. Then had to put another 8.5gal on Sat noon. Then drove 135miles in snow for 7hrs, heat on. Range or not no EV would handle it, there just not enough time to charge it.

 

As SageBrush states, the EV1 was just a GM compliance vehicle, made at DOT direction(*); however, both Ford and Chrysler made their "models" too, but nobody remembers them.

(*) check: Electric and Hybrid Vehicle Research, Development, and Demonstration Act of 1976 which directed the Energy Department (DOE) to support research and development in electric and hybrid vehicles by Detroit's Big-3. It was also a CARB mandated vehicle.

 

Ok, but I'm going to challenge you a bit. Can you give GM some credit for the Volt, a car that allows some owners to use extraordinarily small amounts of gas at a fairly reasonable price and not have to walk the BEV plank (Leaf). (?)
Volt is a unique design. Not copied from any other mfr. that I know of.

 

I think you are way off base.
The group asked GM what the cost of the car was and GM told them. As I recall, it was $61k or $63k.
A number of people offered to pay that amount. Still no dice.

As for bad behavior, there is plenty to go around. GM, IMO, is the worst, however Toyota has their issues.
If I refused to buy a car from any company that has acted badly, I wouldn't own a car.

 

^^ I'm delighted that people who buy GM choose a Volt over a gas hog.

 

Volt was essentially a gobberment "stick & carrot" during GM bailout...a do it or else situation.

 

That is my take as well.

 

That figure $61k in WKTEC? I might just rent it again. Saw it twice, no recollection of that.