The begining of the end of the Prius - Time

The Prius is losing sales because:
1. IT IS OLD. The basic design is 4 years old.
2. Gas Prices are low.
3. Other cars can get 40 mpg - close enough to be able to forget the Prius.

 

The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV outsold the PIP's entire sales since release in just six months, and is also outselling the regular Prius. All this from a country where petrol is still well over $7 a US gallon.

The PIP is too expensive and too restrictive. Give people what they want and they will buy it. The Volt/Ampera had 4 seats and cost more than a 5 series BMW. The PIP cost the same as a top end BMW 3 series. The Outlander barely costs more than the top end Leaf. 32 miles EV, chademo fast charging and a 2 litre petrol engine.

It really is a case of "built it and they will come".

 

grumpy's right. just look at the 97% of vehicle sales. give people what they want. suv's, pick up trucks and low cost, decent mpg sedans. alternative fuel vehicles are not what they want.

 

That was Volt's campaign. We listened to enthusiasts harp on the "superior" drive experience for years. It didn't work.

 

Whoops, misread post. Yes, 430,000 Camrys and 380,000 Accords sold in US last year. Those 2 vehicles are #4 and #5 of all vehicles sold every year. And then there's Altima, Fusion, Corolla...
www.goodcarbadcar.net

I don't think Prius, with it's wedge shape will ever compete with the top 10 sedans. Too many people just don't like the overall look of the car.

 

This is not available in North America. Are there any EU specs to compare it to one of the Ford plugins?

Thanks,
Bob Wilson

 

Basically, most customers don't want to pay a bunch of money for a small car, with low power, and flighty handling (Prius), then have to earn back the money in gas savings over the years. They want to save money up front for a small car, so, buy Corolla. If they want a smaller hatch, they buy CR-V type thing.
Customers want the best for their money NOW, and most aren't into EVing, plugging in and such...

Tesla is smart though - hit them with a smokin' hot sedan that happens to be a plug-in.

Just last week KRON 4 news showed a blurb of a Tesla S P85D blowing away a Charger Hellcat on a real drag strip. This is good PR for EVs, Tesla.Als

Prius needs to come down at least $2k in price. Liftback's $25k entry sticker price is ridiculous these days. Also needs bit more power, less weight, be more solid, look sharper outside and good gawd, they better get serious about that interior. Hopefully 4th gen interior is not anything like the current new Corolla's which are piles of crap, IMO: Hate the dr. seat, steering wheel column very crooked. Anyhow, don't care and don't like small cars.

 

It worked just fine, as well as the first gen Prius worked for Toyota.
The upcoming second generation will be the true test.

 

The Outlander PHV's NA release was pushed back because it did better than expected in Asia and Europe.

 

Well, it appears GM has Toyota / PiP on the ropes with their newly unveiled Volt 2.0: It's good looking inside and out, improved range, now seats 5, runs on 87 octane and more. What about price though?

Meanwhile Toyota makes us wait and wait and wait to see what the 4th gen Prius will be. I don't even know what Toyota's commitment to Prius, and alts are now, except for that Mirai.

If the 4th gen doesn't look and spec out as amazing, I'm going to laugh it up

 

A great deal of the hate from Volt supporters came from that reality. Pointing out losses on the showroom floor resulted in hostile responses sometimes. The thought of GM customers choosing a traditional cars instead was too much to accept.

Pointing out the same showroom issue existed with Toyota fell on deaf ears. Some refused to acknowledge just how strong sales of traditional cars continue to be.

Leadership will come from being able to overcome those barriers. Cost reduction to compete directly with traditional cars is a very, very big deal.

Fortunately, the patents on NiMH batteries just recently expired. The next-gen Prius could exploit the new found opportunity that presents.

No. Even GM has stated they aren't competing with Prius anymore. Toyota is on a quest for affordability, attempting to take on the mainstream directly. Even supporters of Volt say that isn't the case for gen-2 of Volt. It will instead take on the EV competition, hoping it to be well positioned in that growing market.

As for seating 5, take a look at recent photos. That spot is for nothing but a small child. There's no legroom whatsoever in the middle.

Price will be interesting. GM's big worry will be Nissan, not Toyota. Leaf will burn through the tax-credit money much sooner than Volt. That means aggressive promotion after expiration to keep sales going. Is GM prepared to deal with ramping up of pressure like that?

 

With a reluctance to keep up with the mainstream customer's desires, Toyota will not grow the Prius base, maybe not even maintain it. Many diehard Prius owners also seem to disregard others opinions and wish lists as if they expect the larger market to succumb to their own opinions. People are told that their desires for longer seats are not valid, rear speakers that can't be heard are not an issue, traction control is something they will learn to love, and driving 60 mph on an interstate is what they should be doing. Get used to the looks because "We" love it.

The only two hybrid cars Toyota makes now that could be considered more mainstream and friendly to operate are the Avalon and Camry hybrids. Consumers have taken notice that there are other makes out there that understand a little more about what people want in a car, and why they buy them. The sticker prices on the Prius are not something most people think is equitable after they have been inside the car, and/or driven it. We are still contemplating a replacement for our aging 2007 Camry Hybrid. Not sure we want or need a second car that size. But when looking at a rough comparison between a new Corolla and a Prius hatchback, a more realistic comparison is in play. We both enjoyed the Corolla more, and it was thousands less. Volume makes that math work. So is the difference between a Camry hybrid and the competition.

Riding in a new Accord Hybrid really brought home the fundamental difference now between Toyota and everyone else. Toyota generally does better than Honda because Honda will never be an aggressive discounter. But most anyone that appreciates driving a car would find the Accord, or the Fusion, to be more to their liking. Visually and interior-wise, not even a close contest. My friend is averaging 45 mpg in his Accord hybrid, and never once has he spent time with pulse and glide, slowed down, or tediously watched the gauges to see if he could eek more out of it.

As other brands expand they models and compete with the Prius, people will be greeted to bolder new cars designed to please both drivers and occupants. From what I've seen and heard for the next-fen Prius hatchback, they might be in for a rocky road ahead.

 

Agreed on the seating.
Rather than seating 5, it should be listed as 4+1.

All of the EV builders are not competing against each other so much as they are already competing against traditional cars. They are carving a new piece out of that larger market.
Yes, they are taking some market share away from hybrids too. But not gobbling it all up. I think hybrids will continue to draw in as many people as they loose and thus retain a 3-4% market share.

 

If they retain 3-4% market share, they will forever be pricier than the rest of the market. Toyota could very well draw a larger Prius audience if they would add some real car guys and designers to the team. But I guess it is what it is, and they are fairly predictable.

 

Vague comments like that fall on deaf ears, especially in an industry with new preferences & options.

If you want change, make concise suggestions.

 

I think we have to wait and see what the next gen prius is. I do believe that Akio Toyoda is a real car guy unlike his predecessor. The latest delay was probably to address some of the items you see. Unfortunately this may have been late in the design cycle that the newer management got to address some of these issues, so we will have to wait and see if they have improved driving dynamics and interior layout enough.

2016 Toyota Prius Was Delayed Due To Redesign For Sportier Style

 

i do not know, considering camry, accord, corolla, civic and malibu are 5 of the top 10 case, i'd say the 'real' car guys are in the dodge booth.

 

Dodge Magnum was an interesting development in the effort to make wagons appealing.

 

they must be loving the sub two dollar gas. i wonder if toyota would have even bothered with the prius, had they known where we would be 20 years later.

 

Probably because they didn't just make and design it for the US market with the lowest petrol prices in the western world.

Japan likes to reduce fuel use regardless of what it costs as they have to import all of it. They also like to reduce pollution in their megacities.

The first 4 years of the Prius were just for the domestic market. I think they class it as a bonus that the Prius sells well in the US, but the numbers are still low compared to worldwide sales of the Corolla/Auris.