The begining of the end of the Prius - Time

toyota always said it was a bridge technology.

 

Prius sales are collapsing here, yet sales of economical cars are up. Petrol costs have come down significantly in the last few months and are now the same as back in early 2010.

The Prius is just too expensive for what it is and I personally don't know why. The HV battery costs are nowhere near what they once were. The technology is proven, so why the hybrid premium?

Latest UK sales figures only cover 3/4 of 2014 and over that period the Nissan Leaf sold more cars than the Prius, 2,900 Leafs against 2,100 Prius. Neither are high numbers, though Leaf sales are climbing year on year and the Prius are falling (lowest since 2004!). The Leaf is cheaper to buy across the range.

TOYOTA PRIUS (model family) - How Many Left?
NISSAN LEAF (model family) - How Many Left?

 

yes, the leaf price with government incentives is very attractive here as well. perhaps nissan and toyota have different philosophies. did you read that toyota dropped aus prices significantly?

 

Sales started to suffer so they dropped prices. That is worrying as Australia has always been a market that thought very highly of Toyota, at least that was my understanding. What did the urban myth say "A LandRover can take you anywhere in the bush, a Toyota will get you back", or something like that.

But I wonder if Toyota are betting their farm on FCVs like Nissan/Renault have with BEVs? Or maybe they just took for granted customers who liked hybrids, thinking they were loyal to Toyota, when the reality is that such competition is now keen elsewhere.

Complacency has got 'em?

 

. . . and the automatic transmission in the gasser will be ready for rebuilding. Gassers also passes a lot more exhaust through their catalytic converter, fuel pump, spark plugs, and fuel injectors.

Bob Wilson

 

hybrids aside, you'd think they would make hay with gassers like they do here.

 

I agree. These comparisons should be apples to apples.
The LT and ECO are close enough in price to not really matter on which is used. Both are equipped with the 1.4 turbo, and the fuel economy rating diffeerence with the automatic is slight. Feature wise they are probably close enough to the base Prius that only nit pickers would complain. A fuel conscious Cruze buyer will pick the ECO. The LT the most likely choice for a buyer choosing for off the lot. Either will reach the same conclusion. The Business week chart looks like they used a Cruze slightly more than the rounded $20k we both selected. Perhaps they just included delivery and other fees.

The $30k Prius they used wasn't the $24k base we picked. I thought they stacked the deck by using a fully loaded Five, but mention Prius tax credits means they stacked the deck with a PPI, and then likely ignored the advantage of grid powered miles. The author probably just used the basic fueleconomy.gov comparison tool. It lists annual fuel costs of the Prius and PPI as the same.

I think we both concluded the article's results were BS.

I only take exception to comparing the Cruze to the Prius c. The article was comparing the Cruze to a Prius PHV. The Prius, PPI, and v are all just variants of the same car. The c is a Prius in name only, and not even that inside Japan. It is a smaller car to the Cruze. A compact/B class to a mid-size/C class. To be 'fair', we should compare the Prius liftback to a Sonic. That might actually be closer than the Aqua/Prius c to Cruze. The Sonic hatchback is a midsize by EPA.

That is because of trade agreement and elimination of import taxes on cars from Japan. Toyota just lowered the consumers' price to reflect that a few weeks before the laws go into effect. Good publicity, but Toyota really is only lowering their prices, and profit, for those few weeks.

 

10 years ago, 9/11 was a lot fresher in our minds: We had what, 140,000 troops in Iraq, troops in Afghanistan, US soldiers dying and others coming home wounded. Back then Prius was a way to fight back against terrorists. I guess Hollywood and media liked it. I wasn't paying attention at the time.

Now 9/11, Iraq and all is further in the past. Prius has been picked on time and again in movies, by comedians, etc...
Toyota's primary goal with Prius ought to be: Provide more car for less money. Prius is not going to take over at 55 MPG combined. Somehow, it's got to look better inside and out, drive better, be more comfortable, and cost a bit less.
We're all waiting to see how good Toyota can do.

 

Really?
Seriously?
How many 8-10 year old hybrids have needed a new traction battery?

Do you have numbers to back up this statement?

Mike

 

Take a look at the Gen I and II forums and you'll see plenty. Or check out how many aftermarket battery recycler companies there are around the country. Do you really think they would be in business without a steady supply of customers?

 

On the other hand, Toyota UK offer unlimited mileage upto 11 year warranty on the HV battery subject to the car being serviced by Toyota.

They wouldn't offer that if the HV batteries were failing all the time.

And the cost of the HV battery has been put by Toyota at £800 (US$1,290) + tax and fitting. That's the cost of a clutch in a manual car.

Toyota Warranty | Toyota UK

"A hybrid Health Check (HHC) will extend the Hybrid Battery Warranty by 1 year /10,000 miles. The HHC is completed as part of a service, free of charge. The HHC must be completed before the cars 10th anniversary of registration to benefit from the Extended Hybrid Battery Warranty."

Hybrid Cars FAQ | Frequently Asked Questions | Toyota UK

"It is extremely unlikely that a battery will need replacing. In the unlikely event that the hybrid battery does need to be replaced and the warranty has expired, the cost is approximately £800."

I would check the prices you've been quoted. Usually costs are much cheaper in the US compared to the UK.

 

I'm not so sure what good "choosing" the prius c does for you.
2014 Year End U.S. Passenger Car Sales Rankings - Top 157 Best-Selling Cars In America - Every Car Ranked - GOOD CAR BAD CAR
It doesn't make much sense in the context of the business week article. It is much maller than the prius, cruise, and corrolla in terms of passenger volume (87 vs 94, 94, and 98). It has tiny sales compared to the others (40,570 for 2014 versus 136,040, 273,070, and 339,448 for the prius (liftback+phv), cruise, and corolla/matrix).

well other than name and being a hybrid the prius c does not really have much in common with the liftback. It is the aqua in japan and is one of toyota's most sucessful new model. I guess we could find the hybrid premium here, but you need to compare it to a yaris, not a prius liftback to calculate that.

I think businessweek took the average transaction price. I throw up the corolla because this helps us see where prius sales have gone. They have not gone to SUVs, but likely to corolla and cruises in the american market. Last year the corrolla increased sales 12.4%, the cruise 10%, while the prius dropped 13.5% (11.5% if you extend to the whole family, but that doesn't help anyone's understandaing).

I would guess that gas prices have had something to do with this, but we should not neglect the fact that the prius is long in the autocycle. It has been the same car since april 2009. I do have hopes that if the redesign drops the hybrid premium and adds more fun to darive the sales will pick up, but the new one is not available until the end of this year.

 

i think you'd be better off comparing total hybrid and plug in sales vs cruse and corolla. i think prius has lost sales to hybrid/ev competition.

 

December 2014 Dashboard - HybridCars.com
Hybrid's down 8.8%, -43,619
prius (liftback + phv) down 13.5% -21,240
hybrids ex prius liftback down 6% -21,223
All light vehicles up 5.8%
cruze up 10% +24,836
Corola up 12.4% +37,318
Plug-ins up 22.8% +22,200

Sure some of the prii sales went to plug-ins, but some look like they were swapped for other similarly sized for passengers like the corola and cruze.

With $2 Gas, the Toyota Prius Is for Drivers Who Stink at Math - Businessweek

 

...it'll be interesting to see if Consumer Reports continues reporting Prius battery failure rates like they did in last years annual auto issue.

Today's CR has an update on the most cost effective cars...Prii and Toyota do extremely well thank you. What's most impressive as you look over the lists, the Toyota's tend to be the only ones with the best reliability ratings, along with Suburu.

 

BusinessWeek article is stupid. Anyone could get a base Prius for about $23k before tax, not 31k.

Have you heard about the earthquakes in Texas that may be due to groundwater waste from drilling?

 

Subarus have worse than average reliability once they get past 6 years. Honda has good long term reliability and repair shops I talk to confirm that.

 

... if by 'average' you mean 'Honda and Toyota'.

 

Personal experience.

But part of the reason I made the leap to Prius was that with my Prius Two, I didn't feel there was much of a Hybrid Premium. If any.

To be honest, I did NOT make the best deal on my 2010 Honda Fit Sport. It was automatic, cruise control, keyless entry. But by the time I added just a few things, it ended up costing me around $19,000 in 2010. Looking back, I could of made a better deal. But I needed a new vehicle, and had a lot of things on my mind.

Fast forward to 2013 when a local dealership is advertising the 20, 30 available at "this price" Prius Two. I paid around $22,500.

So $3,500 difference, for a newer vehicle, larger in overall size. That has keyless entry as well as the smart key system and push button start. Things that at that time were not even available on a Fit.

Today? Go to Honda, Mazda, Volkswagen, even Fords website and start building whatever 4 door hatchback they offer. If you can get it with a smart key system and push button start, you'll notice that it doesn't take long for the cost to exceed $22,500 or at least match it.

So anyway, part of the reason I did finally purchase my Prius, was that at the time, I didn't feel in comparison there was that much of a Hybrid Premium.

Unless your starting point is a KIA RIO or perhaps a Nissan Versa Note, most all of the "upscale" or more popular hatch-backs can quickly break the $20,000 barrier, and meet or exceed what I paid for my Prius Two. Most other manufacturers will charge you for extra's that are just standard on all Prius. I had to pay for the cargo cover, and pay extra for a center console arm rest with The Fit. You start to add it all up...and that "Hybrid Premium" disappears pretty quickly.