1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Prius Handling Problems at Highway Speeds

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by ARiddle, Apr 5, 2006.

  1. ARiddle

    ARiddle New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    44
    0
    0
    Hi

    I am a new Prius owner located in Orange County in California. I purchased my Prius to drive in the Diamond Lane on the 405 Freeway back and forth to Los Angeles (which can get up to 2+ hours each way at times in the regular lanes).

    The first time I drove this vehicle at highway speeds 65+ on the 405 I had the unpleasant experiance of very irratic handling - with the car darting around in response to tracking the rain groves carved in the surface of the highway. At 70+ I felt as if I was close to loosing control of the car any time I was buffeted by wind. I began a process followed by many others in this forum in upgrading tires, purchasing a BT Plate to stiffen the chassis, looking at spoiler deflectors, sandbags in the passenger seat etc. Gosh, there's a whole industry growing just to address Prius stability problems.

    Honestly, the last time I drove a car that handled so bad at speed - it was an old Econline Van.

    I've had a lot of help and some kindred sympathy from many others in this forum about this issue and have seriously considered selling this car at a huge loss and getting a 06 Honda Civic Hybrid. I don't need 3+ hours of anxiety a day traveling a few inches from the centerline wall.

    When I reported this issue to my dealer (who is amonst the highest volume prius dealers in the nation), their service department was absolutely stunned to hear of the problem. I took one of their specialists for a ride to demonstrate the problems with raingrove tracking and he had no trouble seeing the problem (although with two big passengers the problem dimishes).

    The service manager called the Toyota Quality person in Southern California responsible for tracking consumer complaints - and the service manager was told that Toyota hadn't heard of this complaint either.

    Am I the only one who is bothered enough to complain about this to Toyota - or have they just got their heads in the sand?

    (Check my post #75 for the resolution)
     
  2. mssmith95

    mssmith95 Michael

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2006
    535
    4
    0
    Location:
    Valencia, CA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ARiddle @ Apr 5 2006, 04:31 PM) [snapback]235547[/snapback]</div>

    I also drive in So.Cal. Those grooves can make even the most stable car move around. It is not a lot of fun...but I am used to them...and just let the car self correct (over-correcting is what gets you in trouble).

    From your post I can not tell if you did upgrade the tires, or have just read about doing it. I did install the BT plate and it did seem to help some. However, I rarely go above 65...to obtain my MPG goals mostly. I have not received my HOV sticker yet, and although I really want it, I am a little scared about how fast everyone seems to drive in that HOV lane.

    Have you also adjusted your tire pressure to 42/40?

    Today with huge winds, I could feel them a little, but not bad. Maybe taking the wheel rings off actually helped reduce the side to side push on the wheels from the wind (wishful thinking!)
     
  3. ARiddle

    ARiddle New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    44
    0
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mssmith95 @ Apr 5 2006, 04:52 PM) [snapback]235559[/snapback]</div>
    I have already upgraded the tires to Goodyear Assurance Comforttreds, they helped a little (even with inflation up to 40/38) but the car still resonds to road surface issues irratically. I have order a trial of some Michelin Hydroedges and should get these in a day or two to try out. My Toyota dealer is going to check out alignment and insure I have enough toe in on Monday .. (my wifes new Sienna was delivered with toe out..)

    It is strange that even though the side profile of the Sienna is so much bigger and flatter than the Prius, that the Prius reacts much more strongly to side winds - and indeed yesterday was a very blustery day.

    Did you ever mention to Toyota that you weren't quite happly with handling at speed? I could assume that many others in Priuses seem to be anxious about the Diamond lane (including me), given the large number of them I see crawling along in the regular lanes when they could have gotten diamond lane stickers a while ago.
     
  4. JeffG

    JeffG New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    94
    1
    0
    Location:
    Middle Tennessee USA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    I'm running standard everything on a 2004. I do a lot of interstate driving. The car cruises nicely at 79 mph. It moves a little in high wind, but otherwise no problems. certainly nothing like what you've described.
     
  5. coolfire74

    coolfire74 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    47
    0
    0
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I normally drive 70-80 MPH on hignway without any problem. I have not thought that high speed was a problem for Prius.
     
  6. San_Carlos_Jeff

    San_Carlos_Jeff Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    871
    160
    0
    Location:
    Northern California
    Vehicle:
    2012 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    N/A
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JeffG @ Apr 5 2006, 07:13 PM) [snapback]235572[/snapback]</div>

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(coolfire74 @ Apr 5 2006, 07:28 PM) [snapback]235580[/snapback]</div>
    I'll third that. I routinely cruise at 60-80 and this car isn't any different than my old Acura. Maybe it's a road thing, or something specific with certain cars. The other day I got up to 90 and it felt surprisingly stable.
     
  7. Black2006

    Black2006 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2006
    198
    6
    0
    Perhaps you should ask the dealer to test another Prius on the same road. It may be something amiss with that particular car.

    I drive on the 405 sometimes around Santa Monica and have actually been very impressed by the ride of the Prius. Maybe because I expected so much worse (had never even been in one until I bought it:)

    I have been trying to be good about breaking in the engine, so have not really gone over 75mph, but it seems fine to me (I have installed the BT plate, but while I believe it tightened the car a bit, I didn't think the effect was so significant.)
     
  8. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    9,810
    466
    0
    Location:
    MD
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    just curious, what was your previous vehicle?
     
  9. benighted

    benighted New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    530
    1
    0
    Location:
    Westport, WA
    A week after I got my Prius I went to the dealership and made them put 1/8th inch of toe-in on my alignment. That helped a lot.

    They will tell you zero toe-in is spec but you really want a little bit of toe-in, it really helps the car go straight down the road.
     
  10. mouztrpd

    mouztrpd Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2005
    80
    0
    0
    Location:
    Ogden, Utah
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    We've driven across Wyoming, South Dakota, Iowa, Nebraska, Utah (straight through form Omaha to Ogden in 13 hrs.) in a completely stock 05 with no trouble. It does get pushed around by the wind a bit and the seat can get a bit uncomfortable after a few hours (reclining does help the my lower back pain), but otherwise its been a good cruiser for us.
     
  11. jezroj

    jezroj New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2005
    52
    0
    0
    Location:
    Sunnyside, California
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Drove from San Diego, CA to Tempe AZ and back at an average of 70-75 MPH, the wind at times made me think I was going to get pulled off the road. Could not walk the day after the trip and am still trying to walk pain free (now on my 7th day), the seats are the pits on a long trip.
     
  12. pocketpenguin

    pocketpenguin New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2006
    27
    1
    0
    Location:
    Mid-Missouri, USA
    With stock tires at stock pressure at 50 mph my 2006 Pruis wiggles like a fish, especially when it is windy.

    I've been driving a Subaru Outback for 5 years. It was the straightest, smoothest car I've ever driven.

    I really expected better from Toyota. Given the number of people who've reported handling issues, I'd say we're not alone.
     
    GSP_Prius likes this.
  13. ghostofjk

    ghostofjk New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2006
    979
    4
    0
    Wandering, darting, handling unpredictably, etc. were very common complaints about the '01 Priuses. The consensus fix then was a realignment, and it did seem to clear many people's problems up. How so many cars arrived here misaligned was an unanswered question. Hope that works for you. It should have been checked FIRST, before buying different tires or a
    stiffening plate.

    I remember the grooves from when I lived down there for 10 years. They gave me fits, especially up by Los Alamitos. My Corolla used to dart all over the place.
     
  14. bigj3347

    bigj3347 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    161
    0
    0
    Location:
    Hacienda Heights, Ca
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    I drive around socal hgihways all the time, 65mph-80mph . . . I know what you are talking about, but its really not a big deal. I think the wind affect is more a matter of the car being so light, but the handling is fine, occasionally it will dart but i found the best way to counter this is to keep a firm grip on the wheel and not try to overcompensate for it. I normally drive with one hand and I kep it firm on the six oclock position. The wind doesn't really affect the handling, imo. Its just a matter of getting used the occasional blast from the wind.

    oh, btw, i'm using stock everything
     
  15. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    6,057
    389
    0
    Location:
    Northern CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ARiddle @ Apr 5 2006, 04:31 PM) [snapback]235547[/snapback]</div>
    I'm curious why it matters if they've heard a similar complaint before. If the tech thinks it is a problem, should it not be fixed? I'm the MASTER at reporting problems for the first time. My tech loves me dearly. ;)
     
  16. KTPhil

    KTPhil Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2005
    1,379
    20
    0
    This problem is well known here and on PriusOnline. Some suggestions:

    Get it aligned (for free if you report handling problems). This includes all four wheels, including camber, caster, and toe.

    Ask for a little front toe-IN (not zero toe) which will help a lot. The spec allows zero, but that's not good for you.

    Add some tire pressure as described above (38-40 should do it, keep the fronts 2 psi higher).

    Grab the wheel loosely, and don't over-react if it darts a little. Ther eis no dead zone, so a little goes a long way.
     
  17. SW03ES

    SW03ES Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    2,480
    176
    0
    Location:
    Gaithersburg, MD
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Honestly...I drive a Lexus, outside of something like a BMW one of the more stable vehicles at highway speeds. Feels like its standing still at 70.

    Coming from that, I have absolutely no problem driving the Prius at highway speeds up to ~ 80 MPH, and this is on stock tires, no BT plate etc. Yes it gets buffeted by the wind somewhat but I've never felt out of control with it and the roads here in DC aren't exctley smooth. The MXV4s we put made an already stable ride moreso.
     
  18. DocVijay

    DocVijay Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2005
    1,455
    2
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    If you read through my link in my signature, you'll see I added two suspension braces to the front, and both helped the handling very, very much. No more tracking grooves for me at all. I think the discussion on them starts on page 5 and goes to page 7.

    I wasn't really bothered by it though. The Prius is a light car; it'll do that. The best long distance cruiser was an old Mercedes 420SEL I used to have. That thing was a tank, and would cruise down the interstate at 105 and feel like 60. Smooth as butter. It was much, much heavier, and had a wheelbase about 6 feet longer than the Prius though.

    Each car has it's own characteristics. That's just hte way a Prius handles. Yes, it can be improved, but it's not a design flaw or anything like that.
     
  19. ARiddle

    ARiddle New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    44
    0
    0
    To All.

    Well it looks like there are some differing opinions of the cars stability. Thats encouraging - perhaps there is a fix. I took it to the dealer the first time I noticed the problem and the prius specialist rode with me and observed the tendency of the rain grooves to drag the vehicle about. They didn't even mention toe-in or alignment as a possible cause of the problem - the question that came up was tires which I addressed myself and which do help the tracking at speed.

    I notice on asphalt and smooth uniform highway surfaces that the effect is not so pronounced as it is on the deeply grooved new lanes on the 405. I am not sure how common these surfaces are elsewhere. Also additional weight in the front helps.

    My BT plate arrived today, I will put it in tomorrow, the car is scheduled for alignment at the dealership on Monday - so I am aggressively working on the issue.

    My other cars are a Yukon XL and a 2005 Sienna. In the last 15 years I had three land cruisers, a 4 runner, a big mercedes and a 5 series BMW. Never had this issue with any of them.

    This brings me back to the original question as to why people would spend 160+ bucks on mods to fix stability (or not) and not report it as a problem to Toyota???

    Just searching around the web for "professional opinions", I found the following:

    Consumer Reports says the "steering feels vague" - but they rated the car overall a best pick in the hybrid area
    Consumer Guide said "Prius also less stable in crosswinds than most conventional compact cars"
     
  20. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    6,057
    389
    0
    Location:
    Northern CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ARiddle @ Apr 5 2006, 09:05 PM) [snapback]235696[/snapback]</div>
    The answer to that is that most folks I know didn't buy the stiffening plate (I assume that's what you mean by the "$160 fix") to fix anything. They bought it because most folks think the brace makes the car feel better - NOT that anything was broken to begin with. I've put sway bars on most of my previous cars. Not because there was anything "wrong" with them in stock form, but because I wanted better.