The begining of the end of the Prius - Time

A fair article if a year and four months late. But to compare a Chevy Cruise?

The 2016 Prius remains something pending and IF Toyota incorporates Plug-in control laws and optional traction battery capacity, it could put a hurt on the honorable competition. I'm 40% sure I'll be watching from a Leaf seat.

Bob Wilson

 

gonna have to wait for $4. gas again.

 

Want to read more nonsense?: Why hybrids are dying: Gas engines are good enough on mpg, plug-ins are sexier | ExtremeTech
Assignment: Ukiah - Drive a Prius, go to prison - Ukiah Daily Journal

 

i get enough nonsense right here.

 

Most things ring true in article - Toyota needs to make Prius appealing beyond the MPGs (i.e. Make it more enjoyable to drive.

The line about "there's a lot of cars that get 40 mpg these days ' ....
and as soon as you exit the highway their MPGs nosedives as opposed to a good hybrid whose MPGs go up once off the highway.

 

I'm not too impressed with the article.
There are an enormous number of vehicle choices out there these days, diesel, PHEV, BEV, hybrids you name it.
So there is going to be some dilution.

Low gaso price will hurt probably a lot going forward.
Those buying Prius to save money can go elsewhere.
Those wanting a green car can go with Prius, but they can get mega buck tax credits if they go to PHEV or BEV.

 

Actually, more cars will be adopting the technology pioneered by the Prius.

That's electronic shifters and shifting, electrical air conditioning. electrical steering, electrical water coolant pumps, start-stop technology, and many others.

Gone will be the "full time" vampiric power sucking full time belt driven technologies attached to the engine.

Due to increased C.A.F.E. standards, this will have to happen.

As cost come down due to volume made, such technologies will be come standard, as older technologies will become more costly due to older and likely fewer parts made and only for vintage replacement.

Just check out the cost of reproduction vintage replacement parts for antique cars, and you will realize the trend.

 

Not to mention that once it gets cold, you hear the Yeah, Butts.

Over the next several years, Toyota could very well find their butt in a sling if they don't hire some car guys. Their adding ugly snouts to the new ones didm;t help their effort, at all.

 

The Cruze is a popular seller with about as much cabin space as the Prius.
Those making the comparison may have been hoping to avoid apples to oranges accusations by picking the Corolla(though the new new has a larger cabin than the Prius). Or the original source for it went with a non-Toyota because they were also comparing the Leaf.

It is an apples to oranges comparison. With $2 Gas, the Toyota Prius Is for Drivers Who Stink at Math - Businessweek

The Cruze selected looks a little above the base model, but the Prius is definitely top of the line by that chart. It actually looks too high. *actually reads the article* Business week mentions factoring in the federal tax credit for the Prius. So it must be a PHV one they use, though they never state it.

A more reasonable Cruze to Prius price comparison would probably put the difference at about $4000(Cruze LT auto to base Prius). At 15k miles a year and $2 gallon gas, parity will be in 10 years from gas savings, if that is your sole purchase concern. But we know gas prices won't stay low forever. OPEC will eventually reach their goals with low prices and cut back on production, and ULS gasoline starts phasing in 2017. So it will be be shorter than 10 years
Compare Side-by-Side

 

Nearly all of these reports written by those who claim to be journalist, like the days of "YELLOW" journalism over a hundred years, ago, are there to sell their publications.

Technology marches on without regard to their predictions and comments.

Most of these articles are short sighted.

Remember "peak oil."

These people come and go. They just sell newspapers.

 

And he expects gasoline to remain at $2/gal for the foreseeable future, and electricity to be free?

Remind me to never take any business advice from this 'business' editor.

 

As it turns out, CNBC ratings have steadily declined over the years, because people finally realized that the channel is an "infomercial" channel to sell broker services.

The predictions by so called "experts" were worthless. Index funds beat all of the highly commissioned traders who charged large fees.

 

<rolling eyes>Chevy Cruise????</rolling eyes>

	Cruise Eco Auto	Prius v	Prius hatch	Prius c	2014 metric
1	31	42	50	50	MPG combined
2	26	44	51	53	MPG city
3	39	40	48	46	MPG highway
4	94	97	94	87	ft{3} passenger volume
5	16	34	22	17	ft{3} luggage volume
6	$19935	$26750	$24200	$19080	low MSRP
7	$21130	$30395	$30005	$23360	high MSRP

Source: Fuel Economy

Chevy Cruise:

• priced like a Prius c
  • $19935 is $855 higher than $19080 Prius c
  • $21130 is $2,230 lower than $23360 Prius c
• 110 ft{3} more space than 104 ft{3} Prius c
• 1.6 x fuel consumption combined
  • 2 x fuel consumption in city
  • 1.2 x fuel consumption on highway

So if we compare the cheapest Cruze Eco versus cheapest Prius c, there is a Cruze premium of $855 followed by two times the fuel cost in city driving. You can pay more to buy a Cruze Eco and twice again to drive it in the city.

The original article shows pre-bankruptcy GM accounting math. So now we know GM accountants went into business writing. No doubt, they probably do a much better job reporting on credit default swaps, retirement investment advisors, hedge funds, and investment bankers.

Bob Wilson

ps. The Chevy Cruze comes in multiple configurations including manual transmissions. It only makes sense to compare automatic-to-automatic. There are cheaper Cruze models than the Eco but then we have to use blunt language about what 'Eco' means and GM corporate character.

 

Not to mention maintenance costs. The latest prius incarnations don't have belts to replace in the engine, and being Toyota cars, are probably less likely to break down randomly. That's certainly one reason why I bought my c, and later the liftback.

Yeah, no car is absolutely fail-proof, but I'll take my chances with one that's got a really high reliability overall rating over one that has to go to the garage every few weeks or months due to something breaking or making a funny noise it shouldn't be making.

And I find it interesting that almost any time a commercial comes on for an ICE car, if they mention mileage, they'll proudly put up the 40 mpg, with "highway mileage" in small print somewhere so as not to be accused of false advertising, but they always neglect the city mpg.

Some may state the combined mpg instead, but then you're comparing 31-37 mpg with 50 mpg from a liftback/c, or even 42 from the v. And with a little conservative driving, you can bump those up another 2-8 mpg easily.

Lets see what they say when the Gen 4 is finally revealed.

 

I don't think there is any real "controversy" at all.
It is just another "market cycle".
Cheap gas is only one factor in a car buying decision.
The CAFE standards are still there.
The "tree huggers" are still there.
Gas prices certainly will go up again; probably sooner rather than later.
And then the "media" writers will have to find something else to create controversy.

 

That's why I choose the LT automatic to get the $4000 price difference with the Prius. Without spending too much time on it, I figured features should be close(my Sonic is a LT), and it would be more common on a dealer lot than the Eco. I think the Eco has more efficient gear ratios, but it still suffers from the weight issue of this generation of model.

The Cruze is a class up from the Prius c. Those looking at the c are more likely comparing it with the Sonic from Chevy.

American makes have stopped using timing belts for awhile. Which is why I was a little surprised on hearing my parents 2004 TL and friend's 2005 Camry used a timing belt, and that they were interference engines; meaning they would smash up the valves if the belt happened to break. It's why I was even more surprised to learn the base 1.8L in the current Sonic and Cruze had a timing belt. The 1.4 turbo has a chain, and was part of the reason I opted for it.

Ford does use a timing belt in their hybrid engine, and perhaps some others now. Belts do have a slight noise and efficiency advantage. those belts are oil bathed though, and have much in common with the belts of CVTs, thus Ford doesn't have a scheduled replacement interval for it.

Any car with regenerative braking will reduce wear on the brake pads. We should it spreading to more non-hybrids in the future for auto makers to meet the increasing CAFE requirements. But yes, the Cruze should spend more on brakes than the Prius. On the other hand, the Sonic and previous HHR went 2000+ more miles between oil changes than the 2005 Prius. 13K mile intervals have been reported on a Malibu.

American makes have greatly improved their reliability. Even the lower rated Chrysler brands are much better than a decade or so ago. The Sonic has the mysterious disappearing coolant issue. Most likely it is from the water pump, and GM has extended the warranty on the part to 100k miles recently. I do have to make an appointment for inspection and an issue with the door B pillar door trim. Which, some would say ironically, was where I had an issue on the 2005 Prius in the same amount of time. Damn, the Sonic has had 100% more problems.

And Toyota stressed the Prius c 53mpg with city in small print on the few dedicated ads to it.

With a little conservative driving, everybody can improve their fuel economy. The real error(perhaps crime to some) here though is in using the price of a Prius PHV, only calling it a Prius, and perhaps assuming a plug in never gets plugged in.

Low gas prices make the money saved on fuel a tougher selling point, but we know there are many more reasons to choose a Prius beyond that. We, and likely many others, also know gas prices will go back up.

 

There are four Prius models and more than four Cruze variants. That is why I was explicit in identification of the models. The term "Prius" and "Cruze" without identification of the specific model or configurations means we can 'cherry pick' ones that meet our bias.

In my case, I was under the impression the "Eco" model should match one of the four Prius. I also assumed we would compare the 'cheapest' since the assumption is that was the goal of finding the 'hybrid premium.'

If you want to change the rules, then by all means, let's get the priciest Prius Plug-In and compare it to the cheapest Cruze . . . as has been the practice of every 'analysis' since 2001. Yea, while we're at it, let's compare it to the Toyota 600h . . . When do Apples-to-Apples apply?

Bob Wilson

 

people who by the cruze, don't buy them for the same reasons as people who buy hybrids. the comparison is foolish. toyota will be fine, as most of their income comes from gassers, and they have as much experience and knowledge as anyone in alternative fuels. even if they don't make a splash with the gen IV, it's not going to make a dent in their bottom line.

 

I'm beginning to think hybrids will become a declining market share. Economical ICE cars do fine on the hwy, are cheaper and 8-10 years down the road when the hybrid "payoff" finally pays off it's time for a traction battery. Meanwhile, plug-ins kill the hybrid in city/urban driving mpg. They are taking a beating from both sides.