A petition to Toyota to build electric vehicles

funny thing is that the new Leafs (unlike the 1st year's model's) no longer even provide for 80% charge stopping. They're just set for either a time - or a 100 % charge. The 80% option really seems to best benefit dealerships, as the ev's seemed to prematurely loose capacity if/when cars got stored long term at a 100% charge. Not so, at 80% or less.

 

+1

I think deleting the 80% was for the epa ;-), epa gave the car less range on the window sticker because of the button. I think seariosly engineers think the new batteries do better resting with higher charge, but I don't really trust them in hot places, and I live in a hot place.

I like that mercedes gives you the button and option to charge to over 100 miles. They aren't selling them in texas yet. I have seen a lot of new bmw i3s on the road. They look better in person, and bmw have a show room here that only has the i's (i3 cars and i8 posters as they sold them all;-))The lease rate is a little too high for me, hopefully they will drop it soon. I don't trust bmw reliability enough to buy instead of lease.

 

how often does mb let you do that? is there a warranty restriction?

 

As much as you want, not a waranty restriction. My guess is the extra cash you pay for the button is what MB thinks their extra waranty costs will be. These batteries should last well beyond the warranty period though.

 

well heck, peeps will be using it all the time.

 

Unlikely.
People really don't understand what living with a BEV is like. Even if they think they will use that button a lot, most won't.

You start realizing how few miles you actually drive normally.
Many find that they need to stretch that 85 miles closer to 110 far less often than they thought they did.
And for those that frequently do need 100-110 miles, they are not likely to buy a BEV with a max range of 110.

It's a nice safety valve for those that are new to BEVs, but it is more of a safety blanket than anything.

 

interesting theory, makes sense i guess.

 

Two words "gigafactory". If there is a problem, the odds are the price of a replacement will cost at least 30% less than mercedes is paying today. Panasonic or tesla may be paying partial costs for waranty also, as they both want the data of failures. Not much risk to mercedes. They are doing a slow roll out, so if there are problems they can stop and fix them.

My guess is most will have daily drives of less than 40 miles, so they won't use the button on most days.

 

here's a thought, if you have an 80 mile ev, and you drive 20, 30 40 miles a day typically, might you get lazy and not charge up every night, and find yourself in need of that button more often than not?
maybe it would be the same percentage of peeps who don't fill up until the last bar is blinking.

 

talk about weird timing ... on top of weird timing - we got this card from MB yesterday. . . . it looks like those wacky Germans are really ready to wheel n deal:


36 months - no cash down - talk about no one's asking them to build 'em - jeez - there making it hard to resist buying!

.

 

I wish they were selling them in texas already, I would take that deal.

 

Bob Wilson better pack up the Prius & head west ... the deal ends midnight, Dec. 31st

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From BEV owners I have spoken with (80-100), all that I know of charge nightly. It is an incredibly easy habit if you do it daily.
There are probably a couple BEV owners with incredibly consistent driving patterns that do this, but I haven't heard of them.

Waking up with a full tank is a very, very different experience. Once you get used to it, most never want to go back.

BTW, I had the same thoughts (that I would always use "range" charge and only charge every few days) before I started driving a BEV

 

that's the benz deal i heard on the radio. i guess it's a good deal if you trust their qc, i can see myself sitting on the side of the road though.

 

So, range not calculated with climate control or accessory uses.

Mercedes-Benz B-Class Electric Drive Review - Video

 

No those are EPA numbers with fudge factors the EPA uses for hotter and colder climates. In california people exceed epa numbers but fall short in colder or hotter places with efficient vehicles. Use the nedc numbers for no climate control.

To see the effect of cold/speed/etc on a bev you should go to the tesla website. They have a calculator that allows you to put in temperture and speed, and we have the epa numbers. The model s with its slippery cd of 0.24 does relatively better at higher speeds, so you need to correct there. Rember YMMV. For example a 85kwh tesla S gets an EPA of 265 mile range. At 65mph at 70 degrees it gets 261 miles or 291 in the city, but crank it down to 32 degrees and at 219@65mph and 207 in the city (turn the heat off in the city and it estimates 286 miles). YMMV. If you are taking a short trip in a prius at 100 degrees or 32 degrees you won't come close to epa either. By the way toyota pr puts tesla as a maker of only small niche vehicles but their are 34,000 model S not counting roadsters running around the US today. Toyota expects its mainstream future car the fuel cell mirai to have 3000 running around in 2017. The mirai won't suffer from cold alaskan or minisotan winters though as leases will be restricted to warmer places. The reason it says it is building the mirai is because its what will take over, as they club the bev as no one wants it.

 

The BYD numbers on "fuel Economy dot gov" that I found don't seem to reconcile w/ that 120-ish plus-mile number - or am I reading it wrong:
Fuel Economy of the 2014 BYD e6
as boring as it looks . . . . if it DID get a hundred & a quarter miles per re-fill, I'd give it a look ... if it actually sold here ... which it doesn't.
.

 

Why yes the epa did give it a 127 mile range. I have no idea who would buy this pos versus say the mercedes b-cell e with extended range or bmw i3 rex in the US though. Look at the review
BYD e6 First Drive Review: Slow, A Little Noisy And Pricey - Really Pricey | Inside EVs

Compare Side-by-Side
note the mercedes goes over 100 mile epa electric if you press the extended range button ($600 option in 2014 maybe standard in 2015, and likely the cheapest to lease out of the 4 cars). If 100 miles electric range is not enough, you likely won't be happy with a worse car and 127 mile range, so bmw i3+rex or tesla model S 60kwh are likely much better choices than that byd, which is why I don't expect US imports of byd cars until they improve the design. BYD is the number one maker of electric busses though, and perhaps some of the california fuel cell busses could be replaced with those. It would lower costs quite a bit.

 

who is BYD? chinese? i can't find any company info on their website.

 

Yes byd is a chinese conglomerate and stands for build your dreams. They are the largest maker of electric busses, and waren buffet is a big investor. The other chinese companies in the clectric car space are kandi and waxiang group (bought a123 and fisker).

byd is brute forcing the e6, but with import tarrifs and plug-in incentives in china they may do well, and be around until they make the car better. BYD is behind lg and panasonic in lithium battery technology, but nothing says they won't catch up, or license better tech to be produced in china for their cars and busses.