RIP PiP?

This is one of the hurdles PG&E will have to solve. The way electricity is charged, it's just very difficult to know what the costs will be. I was just like you. When I purchased my PiP, I calculated my costs and it was some $0.33 per kWh. This is like paying >$4 gallon gas. Might as well not plug it in. So I switched to TOU E9. My electricity dropped by about $10 a month or ~$0.20 per kWh. I also use A/C in the summer.

 

I'm seeing a lot of assumptions that apply to some (like the high electricity) but not others. The PiP or Volt costing more is another of those assumptions that doesn't apply to all
Many states have joined the Feds in incentives making the plug-ins either equal or in some cases even cheaper than the comparable

MA isn't the most generous but total cashback is now $4,000 PiP and $10,000 Volt
You can make your own assumption on the 0% 5 yr financing but came up with $2,000 with my use of funds

 

I am very Saddened as I will never recoup any of the free energies I'm receiving in regard to my Pip, I get free gasoline and electricity from my employer, then charge at my fitness club, which is 2 miles away, so I can't use that surplus charge except to go to work, 3 miles away. What's really maddening is I never need most of my Solar energy, so it goes mostly to my neighbors and my Utility. At the end of the year I will be receiving a big check from my Utility. Even my chickens are laying too many eggs. My neighbors are getting tired of my wholesome organic eggs. woe is me, how I long for the days of Pre-Pip again, and $4.00 / gallon gasoline. Never buy a PIP it ruins your struggle.

 

^^^but you know what they say about ham and eggs:
The chicken was involved but the pig was committed to the cause!

 

I am sure it is different if one lives in the California Central Valley where temperatures regularly hit 105 in the summer. I live in the south San Francisco Bay area, where high 90s are rare. After putting in double-pane windows and a "smart" thermostat programmed with my TOU (E9) parameters, my electric bill last summer was never above $80. AC set at 78 during the afternoon (peak rate), but set down to 72 during the night (off-peak) to cool the house down. Also an overnight charge of my PiP at 4am.

 

I don't plan on staying in this home for more than another three years. I wonder what a solar lease will do to my ability to sell. My typical power bill is less than $200/month except in the summer. I already own a Prius 2. Maybe I'll consider a PIP come 2016 when the Gen 3 is out plus one year for them to work out the bugs.

 

Here in the Pacific Northwest, once gas is under about 80 cents a gallon it will be price competitive with electricity for me. But then my electricity is hydro, so I’d really have to like burning fuel. (In the garage, which is underneath my asthmatic son’s room. And huffing fumes at the gas station. And funding all that comes with oil. I could go on at great length, and I don’t even need a HOV sticker.)
Anyone with so much as a passing interest in such things will note that typically resource-based commodities trend towards greater expense with scarcity, while technology-based commodities trend toward lesser expense over time. The PiP is my family’s flexible-fuel bridge to our next car, an EV, and we’ve averaged a bit north of 100mpg (yes, gas only figure there) over its lifetime. Anecdotal, sure, but this N=1 is pretty much thrilled. I honestly don’t even notice gas prices anymore. YMMV indeed.

 

I did some Googling, and a solar lease is more of a liability than an asset in selling your home. I won't go there.

 

If you are only getting an eight year payback, you are doing something wrong. We have companies here, leasing solar installation for seven years, after which they GIVE you the panels.

 

It depends on if you own it, if a 3rd party owns it yes. it's like a car lease.

 

One of these days I would like to see the complete math on all of these deals. One often hears of the decreased utility bill, but forgets the increased cost of the panels, installation, bldg fees etc. Pay back is always 20-40 years. !!!

 

it depends on your location. the way most companies are doing it today, you get an immediate payback in your monthly bill, with no upfront costs.

 

Ok, you got it. This is the math for an actual solar farm that is being installed in my town (with my encouragement, but not my participation).

Panel Cost (installed): $3.40 per peak Watt.
Maintenance costs: ?? perhaps $100 / year.
Renewable energy credits: ?? perhaps $100 / year.
Insolation *here* for south facing fixed panels at angle equal to latitude (includes weather losses): 1.55 kWh per year / Peak Watt.
Cost of grid electricity: $0.158 / kWh.
Financing interest rate (obtained through the installer): 2% per annum.
Assumed electrical usage 6000 kWh / year.
Minimum payment to electric company $120 / year.
Current electric bill: $79 / month.

So, participating in this solar farm at the level of 450 kWh / month (500 - 450 to account for minimum payment), one needs to generate 5400 kWh per year, or 3,483 peak watts of solar panels (call it about 12 panels). This will cost around $11,842.
Financing that cost at 2% for 16 years, 11 months* gives a monthly payment of $68.81, plus $10 electric company min = $78.81. Thus participants would be saving $0.19 per month from day 1. After 16 years, they would be getting electricity for $120 per year.

This is NOT a payback, that would come way sooner. This is TIME TIL FREE. Call it 17 years, with a fixed cost (no inflation, which looks to be about 20% for us this year) at whatever they are currently paying, and then basically free electricity, just paying for upkeep on the physical grid.

So, let's see the actual math you used to get your estimate of 20 - 40 years payback!

* - not the actual financing period.

 

Thankyou for your math, however much of it is theoretical, a couple of unknowables, at this point in time. Having the whole town participate and sharing the costs is much more efficient. What I am really looking for is: a solar installation in a private house that has been operating for 2-3 years with real math. Don't misunderstand me I am a PV aficionado and installed a tiny system myself, 1 KW, 4 panels, from my estimates, payback is far in the future. I will only know after one year. At that point I receive a check from my utility, I am not enthusiastic at all about the amount I'll receive.