Toyota's Plug-in Distain - Part TWO

definitely agree that plug-ins are subsidized. The prius was also subsidized, probably as much per car, but by the Japanese government, but now the us and japanese subsidies are over. The fuel cell vehile is subsidized more per car than the plug-in.

I disagree that the subsidy is humongous. The plug-in subsidy this year should be about $1B, oil subsidies should be about $4B, cost of the war in Iraq was $2T.

But I get your point, the hybrids are no longer being subsidized, and if toyota chooses fcv over plug-in because they can get higher subsidies, its not like nokia going with windows phone. Thank you for your opinion.

 

More on "Toyota - No one wants us to build electric cars" from Green Car Reports

Toyota: 'No One Wants Us To Build Electric Cars'

"Toyota is a well-known not only as one of the world's three largest carmakers, but also the global leader in hybrids.
And it's a staunch proponent of hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles that has repeatedly said it doesn't believe battery-electric vehicles will be viable in the auto market.

Pursuing that point, in a recent Los Angeles Times article about plans for fuel-cell cars from Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai, a company executive made a rather remarkable claim.

"No one is coming to our door asking us to build a new electric cars," according to Craig Scott, the company's national manager of advanced technologies."

 

that's because no one knows where their door is.

 

I still think Toyota is in denial, and wanting to hype up fuel cells more for the tax benefits than having a practical vehicle that will benefit people like the prius managed to do. Can't blame them entirely, considering how much money they've invested in fuel cells. Sunken cost fallacy example here by the way.

Well, lets see if their prediction is true that no one wants electric vehicles or at least plug-in hybrids with longer ev range. We'll determine that in a few years, by looking at sales of their fuel cell vehicle compared to every other automaker's sale of plug-ins, and even their own plug-in prius if they're still selling those.

Didn't someone a long time ago also say that computers would be so big and expensive only a few of them would ever be sold?

 

ken olsen?

 

Over 20 years of R&D. GM spent about $2.5B before they cut back. Toyota hasn't said how much they have spent, but I bet it is in the ball parck with GM. Uchiyamada the chairman of the Toyota board seems to be a true believe in the tech like Rich Wagoner. Uchiyamada spent a lot of time working on fuel cells. Toyota has a lot of the best lobbyist and have gotten a huge amount of government subsidies for fcv. I would not count them out, especially in Japan.

My problem is the continuous bashing of plug-ins. We know Akio Toyoda is not so short sited. He is the guy that has made Toyota at least $700 M on the tesla relationship (Stock+nummi+rav4 EV deals), and if he really though plug-ins had no future, he would have sold out the stock long ago. As the ceo he has other fires to fight though instead of fighting his board chairman and US management on this.

US management and the chairman of the board are looking pretty bad on this plug-in bashing. The US management looked pretty bad during the untintended accelearion incident also. It doesn't make much sense.

Mr. Voelcker has a nice list of questions to ask toyota Here are a few of my favorites
10 Questions On Hydrogen Fuel-Cell Cars To Ask Toyota, Honda & Hyundai

 

i'm picturing the wizard of oz.

 

I think I'd make the trip to California just to be a part of that

 

Toyota To Launch Cheap EV Sub Brand In China

Hmm interesting. So Toyota doesn't want to make an EV in the US, but they're making one for China...

 

it's all about markets. nice looking car, who knows what the chinese incentives are? maybe they're not giving out any fool cell money.

 

Hmmm, as I remember history correctly, nobody came and asked them to build a hybrid. In fact there was downright hostility, particularly when gas was around $1.50/gal when I purchased my first one in 2004. It got old quick, with the number of people explaining it'll never pencil out. They never listened when I told them I wasn't buying for today's gas at $1.50/gal but for a future that I knew would come.

 

With CT200h, Lexus Takes Cheap Shot At BMW i3 - Video
Talk amoung yourselves. Who is this ad agemcy Lexus hiring that thinks someone's brother-in-law would loan him a non rex i3 for a vegas trip?

 

^^ yeah doesn't everybody loan their $42,000 car to your brother-in-law to go to Vegas?

 

Haha, they already took the video down. Insideev says they'll try to find another copy to run, but in the meantime, Toyota is really shooting themselves in the foot this way if EV's take off, and FCV's are dead on arrival. Which is likely due to their high cost and extremely limited refueling stations.

At least with EV's people can just plug them at home if they have a garage, and more charging stations are popping up over many parts of the country, as well as faster charging capabilities/longer range in the next gen versions. I doubt hydrogen charging stations are going to pop up as quickly, or as cheaply (compared to an electric charging station anyway).

I think FCV's would probably have worked better with city buses that can be fueled/maintained in a centralized location at first. Then they could expand from there as the technology improves and prices comes down gradually. This probably would also speed up expansion of hydrogen fueling stations nationwide as well, albeit at a more gradual pace. But at least it wouldn't be restricted solely to one state or city.

 

That's some long commercial, is the Volt next?

 

Who Killed the Electric Car: Part Deux!

 

There is reason for that. China already started to ban private gasoline car in large cities on smoggy days and also restrict private passenger cars to enter city center by the odd and even number on the license plate.
EV will circumvent this restriction as they are claimed to be zero emission.
There is a market in the future.

 

The video was kinda funny despite being inaccurate since that was a REx car.

Still, makes me glad I don't own a Toyota product right now.