Toyota's Plug-in Distain - Part TWO

It would make sense to put the massive rectifiers required, in the charging station instead of the car. It must be a different circuit than the standard AC charger uses.

 

Curious, I was in the same area last night doing a similar comparison to evaluate the Leaf vs Focus. Using your selection:

	MPGe*ft{3}/$	MPGe	range	pass. ft{3}	lug. ft{3}	model	price
1	0.456	114	84	92	24	Leaf	29010
2	0.390	116	83	91	17	Golf	32090 (Est.)
3	0.310	105	76	90	14	Focus	35170
4	0.227	84	87	90	22	MerBenz	41450

The Leaf turns out to best "capital" value with the highest payload*miles per Ge*$.

Bob Wilson

 

bob Carter has said it at least half a dozen times. What do you think the press release said that spawned that LA Times article

Take that any way you will. I know how I read the hydrogen hype coming out of toyota
Toyota plots ‘society-changing’ fuel-cell car for the masses - MarketWatch

I don't think there is any doubt that tens of thousands are ready to plunk down cash on the tesla 3 and tesla X. Since the tesla X is taking deposits and is over 6 months away we can just look that there are around 20,000 tesla X reservations, where people want it enough to put down cold hard cash. Definitely the model 3 is the most desirable and furthest away from being built. The model S is also a model where people are knocking on the door with money, and demand currently outstrips supply. Other plug-ins are desirable as steadily growing sales figures show, but yes I doubt anyone has asked toyota to build anouther leaf.

A poll in 2010 of which brand people wanted to buy a electric vehicle has Toyota first. I am sure many told their dealers. Most dealers though are not interested in selling even the prius phv let alone a bigger batteried plug-in. I am sure people asked toyota for these cars, but the higher ups didn't want to hear it.

I doubt that even 1000 say they would put a $5 refundable deposit on a fcv.

 

Please provide the link.

Without the actual quotes, this is just feeding hype. It's far to easy for a comment to become distorted.

 

This particular quote came from Craig Smith, the "National Manager of Advanced Technologies".
The link was provided by Hill and quoted in the very post you responded to.
Here it is again: Carmakers prepare to shift to hydrogen fuel cells - LA Times

 

Like I said, distorted. The comment made and the quote given don't match.

 

Congratulations John, I've seen few that were better than GM at not being able to see the forest through the trees.
Unless you don't feel the other Toyota executive speaks for Toyota?

 

The hypocritical turn on this thread was inevitable. It's the same old vague & imply.

 

I think it is inevitable whenever you and usbseawold2000 enter a thread and start arguing with those who don't own a PIP. lol I've been away for a bit and every thread I've tried to check up on that talks about different technology ends up this way. Pattern?

 

I see the pattern.

For example, I ask for the quote, but instead just get a link. That's an obvious step away from being direct.

 

I did a quick search and couldn't find such a quote either but the implied message is quite clear, however. Still, you are correct.

Toyota's message is clear.

 

Tree is near-term.

Forest is long-term.

 

But diversity is the true answer to a sustainable end game because forests burn.

 

the article has too many dumb quotes to bother responding. craig says no one is coming to their door asking them to be an ev. i take from that 'no one with cash like carb'. not no one as 'customers'. can't really blame them and can only give credit to nissan who is really the only company to go out on a limb with not much tax help.

is it more efficient to make hydrogen from the for quoted sources, 'pv, hydro, nuclear, nat gas,' or electricity? charging time and range aside.

 

The link was in the OP, and I provided a second one with 2 quotes. Obviuosly you don't want quotes or links. The quotes were from a toyota america and a toyota japan executive. I am sure if I provide the bob carter quotes you will again fail to read them. Her is the exact post.

So no hype that this vehicle will change society. Hm no hype that is will be a car for the masses. No statement about toyota seeing no demand for plug-ins. Its all there. Thanks for playing.

 

It is and they are. The different charging types were once broken down into 3 types. Level 1 was the slowest, and is just an outlet. Level 2 were the faster public chargers, but needed at home for big battery cars. Note that the Tesla S doesn't really need a stand alone EVSE for level 2 charging, but can use an outlet meant for RVs. Level 3 was the fast DC charging used by Superchargers and such. It is now 4 types; AC level 1 and 2, and DC level 1 and 2.

 

Let me add one thing for our Japanese fcv discussion. Japan has rapidly increased its coal use, and it is likely given the economics, if nuclear is not rebuilt, Japan will continue to burn a lot of coal in 2050. It is likely that they and the chinese will be using some sort of sequestration technologies.

DOE would estimate that coal used centrally to produce hydrogen through steam reformation, with CCS would give a 60 mpge fcv, about the equivelent ghg emissions of a 100 mpg car. I am sure the abe government of Japan has looked into this when talking about their fuel cell strategy. In California, there is strong will to not use coal, so it is possible to use sequestration on natural gas production. That would provide about the green house gas equivellent of a 80 mpg car or about what the tesla 60kwh does on the california grid today. What may be viable in Japan is much tougher in america.

 

Yup, I'm done here. That quote of "We would like to be still selling cars when there's no more gas. And no one is coming to our door asking us to build a new electric car." is all you were willing to provide directly. No other quote, despite asking for it.

That's vague, making no mention either way of whether or not an EV will be offered later when the market does start asking. It's all about *AUDIENCE* and certain people here absolutely refuse to distiguish between enthusiasts and mainstream.

Heck, even definitions continue to be changed. What's the point when that happens?

 

I gave you two quotes not one in this thread but sure if you need more

http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303918804579107213728805086

Its been on lots of their press. Now how big of a market do they say there is for the fcv.

2014 J.P. Morgan Auto Conference - Bob Carter | Corporate

That echos Mr. Uchiyamada's reason electics won't catch on those expensive batteries;-)

Toyota Trying to Replicate Prius Success with Fuel Cells | TheDetroitBureau.com

OK take these as you will, but don't tell me there are not easy to find quotes. clear statement from the toyota chairman that he doesn't see a market, clear statements going on for years from carter on how fuel cells are the future, check back in 10 years to see if as carter claims the fcv will be viewed like the first gen prius.

Can we at least agree over the next decade plug-ins will sell much better than fuel cell vehicles in the US?

 

Actual coal sequestration on a utility-level scale with an acceptable cost overhead is still a bit mythical. Until I see some actual full-scale production plants running successfully I'm going to consider this a smoke and mirrors game.