California readies pay as you drive tax test

If they want to tax EV and Hybrid vehicles, do it at the time of sale, much easier than a reporting system that will require how many new hires for the taxing system? Also if you tax cars use the money on roads, I don't know of any state whose roads are truly up to date and not in need of at least some repair.
The folks who run the country had better beware, an issue like this is liable to get people to take the trouble to vote and that could be scary for a lot of politicians.

 

Never happen. They tried to suggest such a tracking system here and people were in uproar. A simpler way would be to tax the very fuel. Use more, pay more. If you're a business or commercial operator then there can be a system of credits if absolutely needed.

But I guess they're worried about increasing BEV ownership? How about a complete rethink and do away tax collected via them and look elsewhere for your money? We have loads more ways of being taxed than you guys. There are many other options available, many many other options.

 

The politicians just want more money to piss away. That is my take on it. They just can not get enough.

 

In other news, chicago is making $50M less than they wanted by putting speeding cameras every where. These are not for safety, as no one has ever shown that they make the roads safer, its for revenue.

This is just another scheme for a more invasive government to add employees (get bigger) then raise taxes some more to cover you know the extra hardware from that company that paid for the new law.

 

The current gas tax makes perfect sense (except for EV's where some correction is needed). The U.S. government is asking consumers to please buy more fuel efficient cars. So the gas tax system gives some modest incentive to buy a more fuel efficient car.

Now then, it gets a little more complicated in states that already offer incentives for buying more fuel efficient cars...how much can we give people?...the incentives can get a little over-blown. But my state VA is different...we have an annual car tax that already kicks butt as far as already over-charging a whole lot more more tax to people that buy more expensive vehicles like hybrids. So we need the break on gaso taxes to hope to break even.

 

Pay as you use is something that I wouldn't be too opposed to, especially here in Ireland where road/motor tax is so high

The pre 2008 cars are on one system, cc based - see link here:

Motor Tax Rates Based on Engine Size - Department of the Environment, Community & Local Government

e.g. a 3.2 litre or greater pays €1,809 p/a

The newer 2008 onwards cars pay based on CO2 - see link here

Motor Tax Rates based on CO2 Emissions - Department of the Environment, Community & Local Government

I think that there only a few countries in the EU with higher rates of motor/road tax than Ireland

I can't complain too much as I pay €190 per annum on the Prius, however, €710 on our Gen2 CRV is pretty steep, especially as it only does about 5,000 miles per year

 

How much? Bl**dy 'ell that's a bit steep!

I have a feeling ours will be increasing shortly now they have the new system in place. But I've probably saved over £1,000 in the last 5 years by having the Prius. We're a two car family and only pay £20 a year for Mrs Cabbies IQ. It's beyond me that some of my neighbours are paying over £500 a year in car tax alone. By careful choices you can still have two cars, all the convenience that goes with that and save yourself £40 a month.

Paying car tax just grates me. It must be the Yorkshire in me but I just see it as money down the drain.

 

Everyone hates car tax, that;s not just the Yorkshire in you!

For us here, it's difficult to reduce the tax bill any further without spending money, i.e. change the CRV for a MY2008+ for a similar vehicle, probably the same again (meets our needs: 2 children & 4wd due to snow etc), so would have to spend alot to save only a few hundred a year in road tax! Bit of a catch 22 situation. Our current CRV costs us very little to run, so am satisfied that it will do the job (Honda CRVs are very reliable and servicing etc is cheap).

There's a crazy mentality here that people spend €30-40k on a car to save €200-300 per year on road tax. The depreciation alone in the first year would more than offset the cost of the additional tax for 10+ years. Most people here are obsessed with the low tax bracket and they spend crazy money to save on the car .... it just makes no sense

 

Up the Federal gas tax from ~19 cents/gallon to 25 cents/gallon and the problem is solved.

As for EVs and plug-ins, I'm still OK with no per mile tax until they begin to reach n% of the vehicle fleet. Early adopters, pay 1% of some target rate. As EVs become a larger percentage, the fee goes up paid at tag time.

Bob Wilson

 

+1

I definitely agree bob, well except for numbers.

The federal tax is 18.3 cents but we spend about 30 cents right now, so it needs to be raised to at least 30 cents, indexed to higher cafe and inflation to cover what the fed is spending now.

As for california, they clearly said the state tax was enough, actually more than they spend. They are currently using it for other state spending, and want this new road tax to allow for other state spending as well. As for my state texas, we get screwed royally by the federal government, getting much less back from gas taxes than other states. The state tax is also too low, so while population is growing rapidly we aren't building the proper roads for the new people. Instead we are building toll roads that I have seen backfire in other states. Austin is the largest city in the US without a bypass highway and growing fast. In stead of building a bypass they built a toll road (85 mph in sections) that is too expensive to have any of the truck traffic go arround town.

That said I don't have a problem with individual states trying new things, but our texas governor and the california governor both seem to be full of bad ideas.

 

I know all about it. I live in a Chicago suburb. Then when Chicago got the red light cameras the suburbs had to have them. Th

 

Red light cameras seem like a great source of revenue for the states, until people learn where they are and simply stop running red lights at those intersections. Then these programs end up costing significantly more than they bring in, which ends up being more of a burden on the tax payer. Lose lose situation. That's why most cities that installed them in SoCal have removed them by now (not all, which is annoying since it's not necessarily clear which cities still use them).

Would this per mile tax be a whole new tax? Or would it replace the annual registration fees? Would it be the same regardless of the age of the car, the MPG of the car, the weight of the car, model of car, fuel type (BEV/PHEV/ICE gas or diesel/FCEV/NGV)? It seems like they're trying to pull more money out of our asses any way they can.

It would be far simpler to set toll boths on all freeways (although still costly). I would not have an issue with this if the cost were reasonable, but seeing how expensive it is to take any of the Fastrak toll programs in SoCal I would be highly against it. If I were to be taxed less than $1 to use a freeway knowing the funds would actually go to improving the freeway and maintaining it, it would be another story. But there is no way this would not be taken advantage of.

 

Chicago also has toll roads. They have made an empire out of it. Also, they just doubled the tolls recently. It just keeps growing and growing and growing.

 

revolution!

 

This is exactly why I moved away from CA. I loved the weather but, it is the most money grubbing place I've ever lived. Every time you turn around, they want more money. Now, I have no beach but, gas just dropped to $2.899 this morning and they don't tax my military retirement pay (CA taxes all of your military retirement). An added bonus is, very little traffic, very few lines (always short) and lots of parking close to the entrances of all businesses.

No beach, gets a little cold in the winter but, mucha peaceful, more friendly and laid back. Stress level near zero here.

 

Or (at least around here) they usually put up big "red light camera ahead!!!!" signs before the intersection. What it does do though is make some dangerous moments when people slam on their brakes to stop at a yellow instead of risking making it through the red or not. Because the second it turns red, you get a ticket.

I agree, up the gas tax. Not by piddly cents, make it a couple dollars. It is what, less than $3/gal now on average? That should be up in the $8/gal at least area. Tack on a $5/gal tax and now maybe we can repair those bridges that are falling apart as well as patching the potholes. We had a bridge intown that developed a hole in it. The entire paved surface crumbled away over night leaving a 3 meter hole in the road that nobody noticed until the following morning. That bridge now is "fixed" by steel plates they just bolted over the hole into the rest of the bridge. Walk under it and you still see crumbling bits of concrete now with steel plate on the surface.

I am all for taxes and I like governments. I believe people should pay for basic services and infrastructures. I do agree that there should be some regulations on how taxes are spent. Tax X can only be used on things A, B, C, and D. If you want to spend that money on E, then put it on the next ballot. That would create an accounting nightmare but at least it would be easier to spot where the money is going. Like the immense amount of money the city spends putting flowers in the median during the spring when we get hail... Plant millions of flowers, it gets hailed within 2 days since it hails 3+ times a week, and then all the flowers are dead. So rip them up and plant some more!

 

You are living in a great place. I envy you. Enjoy it.

 

Wow, 5000 comments on Yahoo, this is a controversial subject. When the equation is fuel price/tax and car economy I can optimize one or the other to accommodate my means. But adding the variable of a fixed tax per mile greatly increases the complexity. If average mileage continues to increase, just increase the state fuel tax to compensate. If alternate fuel vehicles grow in numbers, add a few cents per gallon to compensate. Don't complicate the equation by penalizing me for my love of driving.

 

Love driving all you want; it is the driving itself you have to pay for.