Volt 2.0: Ruess "It will leap-frog... the competition"

I never said it was bad. GM can build & sell Volt to their heart's content. That's fine. They must also deliver a choice for ordinary consumers too. That's the catch.

What I've said over and over and over again is: CONSUMERS WHO WOULD OTHERWISE PURCHASE A MALIBU OR IMPALA OR CRUZE NEED TO BE OFFERED A CHOICE OF A HIGH-EFFICIENCY LOW-EMISSION VEHICLE.

The purpose of replacing traditional vehicles will never be fulfilled if GM keeps delivering good to a small audience. Those other GM vehicles will just continue to overwhelm sales. Do they really have to wait until after Gen-2 ?

 

I never said that either.

What I've been saying is Gen-1 of Volt did not even come close to matching mainstream purchase priorities. That's why I ask what GM's next rollout will offer.

I would like to know who the "competition" is.

 

That's the same excuse since the Prius came out, 13 years ago in the US.

Ford came out with C-Max and Fusion hybrid that rivals the Camry hybrid. GM has no full hybrid. However, that wasn't my point.

I did not say Volt 2.0 should be a gas hybrid. I said it should be as clean as one. It can be a plugin but make sure we are not going backward in green technology.

 

I don't quite understand how it could be an excuse on my part. Remember no one here works for gm. I am not excusing the past, I am explaining why the strategy is unlikely to help gm in the future.

Certainly under investing in hybrids was a mistake at gm a decade ago. Rick Wagoner has even admitted that that was one of his biggest mistakes. Ford experience with hybrids doesn't contradict the explanation though, it reinforces it. Ford has had hybrids on the road since 2004, but it took until 2012 for them to have successful ones. That is far more than the 5 years I was talking about. The c-max started out looking sucessful, but there were marketing and advertising blunders with that car. I would think as a project the c-max hybrid has hurt ford a little. They aren't giving up, they are going to try to do a ground up hybrid around 2018. That leaves gm even farther behind. I don't really think gm being as late to the hybrid party as it is will be sucessful at hybrids at all. That doesn't mean they shouldn't try if they want to, but it is far from a slam dunk, and certainly a worse investment than a gen II volt. If they build it people will likely still come to toyota and maybe honda and ford and ignore the gm hybrid.

Then what was the first part all about.

Many consider the current volt green, some do not. It all depends on your yard stick. The next gen from the gm leaks appears like it will not only use less gas, but also be more efficient in charge sustain mode. I have no idea if it will be more or less efficient electrically. More of the energy used will come from electricity though, so I suppose you could put a kwh/gge jusgement on each individual area for greeness and agregate to see if it more or less green in your opinion. That is complicated though.

 

you will know with the rest of us when it is unveiled this winter.

 

First of all, less expensive per ton of GHG reduced than what ?

Second, GHG emissions in the US approximately divide into four parts

1. Transport
2. Home
3. Commercial
4. Industry

The lion's share of national GHG emissions is electricity generation to feed 2 - 4, so the least opportunity cost approach is to clean up the grid. Hybridizing the fleet to conserve 1/2 of the 25% that part uses is a no-brainer in a rational world.

Wasting money subsidizing EVs instead of building the infrastructure required to expand PV and wind is frankly idiotic.

 

That would be great! You promise?

Unfortunetly, GM has an extensive reputation for being ambiguous. Many press releases are so vague, that they feed hype... which the internet thrives on... activity they welcome.

Clarity would be awesome.

 

Actually gm is the mass market US car company. They seem to sell something to all the segments. I don't think that has served them well, and books have been written about what they have done wrong, but ...

THIS is a VOLT thread.

Well we live in a market system. GM for the first time in its life appears to have good choices in smaller cars - spark, sonic, and cruize. They have the second best selling truck silverado which outsells any model toyota produces in the US.

I would say gm's hybrid strategy dramatically failed. If you want a hybrid buy a non-gm. Toyota like GM sells many inefficient vehicles for every hybrid they sell, but they sell much better hybrids. You want a hybrid hatchback the choice is toyota or toyota, if you want a hybrid 4 door midsize sedat toyota, ford, and hundai/kia have good choices. I don't think a hybrid malibu would do much better than the current malibu.

 

This thread is about leap-frogging the "competition", as stated in the title. Yet, we have no clue who that actually is. The vehicle called "Volt" will be changing again too.

GM originally told us that "Volt" would achieve mainstream sales... the same definition everyone else had been using for here for years: sales of 60k annually... by the end of the second year and that production capacity of 120k would be available for the third. Should we be expecting that for Gen-2 now? Will the next "Volt" be aimed at just the plug-in segment exclusively? Will the next "Volt" be a premiere technology vehicle for GM and there be something else targeting ordinary consumers? What's the plan?

Too many questions unanswered does not set proper expectations. The resulting endless debates are pointless. At a time when gas has dropped to $2.79 per gallon, sales are going to be a challenge. Betting the farm on a single high-efficiency low-emission choice is quite a gamble.

Fortunately, I'm leaving this better prepared for the upcoming confusion. Refusals to consider both kWh & gallon consumption is a dead giveaway the technology, whatever it may be, isn't being considered appropriately... because, having those numbers available is vital for proper comparisons. They reveal shortcomings the odometer and MPG does not.

 

but you have to admit, it's the same old gm hype machine, wrapped in a different package. that article could have been written ten years ago.

 

That was funny, but Godwin is suitably appalled.

 

Did you read the pr piece the OP included in the post where the quote was from? The question what did reuss mean by competition, and who will the volt sell to are quite different, and I think you know both answers.

toyota has been putting out PR about it's fuel cell car going mainstream. Here is an example.
Hydrogen Cars – Toyota Gets In On The Game

Let's see if its as mainstream as the volt. I don't think you or I thought the volt would sell 60k per year, and certainly the automotive press didn't. I don't even know who you are quoting at gm, but hey if they said it they were wrong back then. Are they even still at the company?

Well in context the leap frog the competition was clearly about the plug-in market. In the same plug-in piece reuss also talked about long range bev and luxury sport sedan gm would be making. So not even the whole plug-in market, they clearly have other vehicles for tesla's segment of the market.

I can't answer whether the gen II volt will leap frog the competition. It depends on how well they do, but certainly it should sell better than the toyota's proclaimed ultimate green hyped mainstream mobile.

Can you answer any of your questions for the toyota fool cell vehicle? It is clearly most hyped, and the one that a car company is putting out pr claiming mainstream appeal.

Otherwise I think you are crying for the sake of crying. And you are the one not answering the questions. The rest of us have to the best of our ability, you simply don't like the answers, and keep up the same old song and dance.

 

Hmmmm, I wonder how the Chevy dealers are feeling about gen2? Are they excited about it? Are they hoping gen2 sales sky rocket? Or, will they only accept a limited amount and totally focus on selling Cruses, Impalas, Sonics, and Silverados?

DBCassidy

 

We already know FCV is not intended to be mainstream. In fact we've been told just 1,000 next year.

That's why there is Prius too.

 

John,
I have given some thought to your 'Socratic' approach to asking opaque leading questions rather than simply stating your opinions and their rationales. I've decided the approach is flawed, and truly a waste of time. After all, who gives a Sh1t what GM hopes to sell and to whom ? They are either right or wrong.

 

Who cares? Those that remember the previous generation remember the extensive efforts to mislead about Prius when Volt interest went south. The lesson learned was to keep goals clear.

 

What GM goal ? To spew FUD, lies and innuendo about the Prius ? To disparage car segments where they do not successfully compete ?
I can answer your question easily enough then: Same 'ole GM

This entire thread is in the same vein. GM says next car will be 'game changer', or some other piece of hyperbole. In other exciting news, one of the british royalty took a crap. Oh! and how could I forget, the circa 2009 Honda Insight is going to be a 'Prius Killer.'

Discuss

 

Stepping back, way back, to look at the big picture, there's something new to see. Very few have the background & experience to actually see the pattern though... hence the seeming waste of time and same 'ole GM responses. There is far less interest in Gen-2 of Volt than the hype would make it seem. Discussions drop off quickly on forums & blogs that actually hold any interest, which is much less than with the build-up to Gen-1 rollout.

Volt gets the attention because GM attempts to draw it, to make it stand out among what has now become a crowd. The posts in a venue like this is what flushes out the argument points... which we can analyze and develop KISS response for proactively... rather than waiting for them to emerge as greenwash material later. Having to reactive after the fact is much more difficult to deal with and damaging in the process.

Those are lessons learned which we should take seriously. I participated on the big GM forum and that daily blog for Volt on a regular basis having to "defend" Prius. What I was really doing was responding to the constant stream of misrepresentations. Much of it was blatant lies. But not having any effective way to share data, it was a seemingly endless battle. Turns out though, that waste of time wasn't. I eventually refined comebacks, leading to simple messages and detail video.

Many of those Prius undermining efforts have ceased. That's why perspective has become a consideration of overall production. It's vindication of successfully having dealt with that stage of resistance. Preparing for the next is a sensible thing to do now... which is what this thread was truly about.