Tesla D is a dual-motor, all-wheel-drive, Model S rocketship

Stopping every 250 miles for a supercharge is fine, (if there is one) but there's going to be a time and place where there isn't one.

An air-cooled auxiliary power unit (APU) would be a nice option for those of us who don't happen to live near the big metropolitan centers.

 

Guess you are not into any EV communities then. Some of the EV guys are going 300-500 miles without a Tesla or L3 charging supported cars. There are 50AMP plugs out there if you needed (like with RV parks). And these folks are charging and taking advantage of them. Tony Williams are even selling modified Tesla portable charging unit (that comes with Tesla) so that you can charge at up to 40amp.

 

Greg absolutely agree that phev would serve more of the US population than a bev right now. In fact the tesla S, was originally concieved as a phev, but battery costs were low enough that they decided they could make it a bev.

Tesla is a small company and engineering and maintenance for the X, 3, and Roadster will probably take all of their resources. I doubt it would be in their interest to develop an ice system, pollution control, and maintenance. That is the work of other companies. Audi, BMW, and GM all look interested, but it will take awhile before their designs hit the market place.

 

As it stands, the Tesla works like a car with an 8 gallon fuel tank, with a filler tube the size of an eye-dropper . The supercharger makes the filler the size of a catheter.

 

Not quite.
It works like a car which starts out every day with a full tank.
For those that need to refill at a gas station twice a day, or once every other day, it may not work for them.

 

Since the fuel station is at the owner's house, and the 'pump' doesn't need to be baby sat, this is a non-issue for most people.

If you drive more than 200 miles a day, a BEV just isn't for you. With that many miles, even a PHV is of dubious advantage considering the extra cost and design trade offs.

 

If I had an automatic eye-dropper fuel-tank filler at my house, filling my tank every night wouldn't be a problem either. The problem would be when I wanted to refuel on my way to the next city, (what's a car for?) and had to stop to recharge for at least half an hour (best-case scenario) but probably much longer. The Tesla website is very cagey about how long it actually takes to fill 'er up. The inconvenience of recharging away from home is not to be understated.

 

Absolutely! If you need to drive more that 200 miles a day very often, an EV is probably not for you.
I would just ask that you don't overestimate the number of people that need to do so.

 

But you don't have an automatic refueler for a gasoline or diesel vehicle at home. A natural gas is possible but it and a car running on CNG will have many of the limitations a BEV does. Outside of apartments and condos, few homes won't be able to a charge a BEV. Slow recharge times are a red herring when the vast majority of plugin owners are home doing chores, watching TV, sleeping, etc. Next home home, work place is the other common charge spot where the car will sit for 6 to 10 hours a day.

Likewise, the actual need for charging away from home shouldn't be over rated. The worse case range (70mph, 0F outside, using heat, windows down, and 21' wheels) for a 60kWh Tesla S is 133 miles according to their site. It is 171 miles is the range with larger pack. Not enough to get from Calgary to Edmonton. Perhaps if the 85 one's windows were rolled up, but there is, or will be soon, a supercharger station enroute. There are several going to Vancouver.

If the charge time of a Supercharger is too long for a road trip, then the car isn't for you. Realistically, those that have a Tesla S likely have a second car to fill the few holes in the S's functionality, though. Same is true of most people owning a BEV. If only one car is possible, then a PHV might work. The S 60 has over 200 miles in range by the EPA. A gasoline range extender would likely burn gas on maintenance mode than propelling the car for the average person.

Telling a person that BEV won't work for them isn't understated the charge and range limits. It is acknowledging them.

 

All well and good, but I'd feel a lot better setting out for Edmonton with an air-cooled APU stashed somewhere in the chassis, so that I could fire it up to charge the battery or at least limp to the next plug-in terminal, when my system shut down due to battery depletion. Half the enjoyment of traveling is not to have to plan everything in exquisite detail.

 

A single day trip to Yosemite National Park in a Tesla is out of the question. At the end of this year's CES, we took a trip from Vegas to the Grand Canyon and back on a single tank of gas. We also stop at Seligman for sight seeing not for gas. Though it'd possible on a Tesla but it would have to be a 2 day trip and we'd have to take a detour to flagstaff just to top off adding 100+ miles to the trip. I can see an advantage of towing a generator for trips that don't have superchareger along the way or a supercharger that's 50+ miles away.

 

Sounds like the Model D will prevent the gen 2 Volt from "leap frogging" the competition.

DBCassidy

 

I am very delighted hearing news about Tesla Dual Drive. Not that I'll buy one... If I had that much spare money, I'd rather buy Tesla's share.

My message to all die-hard petrolheads is: "Nobody is trying to take away your classic cars, thunder and fumes... But, could you please be so nice to drive your Ferraris a little bit closer to the edge of the road, because EVs are going to pass you by!"

I just bought a new PiP, but when the time comes to retire it (hopefully in 15 years) thanks to Tesla, Nissan and others pushing R&D of EV cars, I expect it to be able to find a nice long range BEV that would fit my budget then. Go Tesla!!!

 

Seems like there are some major hardware additions to the entire Model S line and that news got overshadowed by the AWD news.

Tesla anger: Recent Model S buyers cry foul over new features - San Jose Mercury News

I wonder whether this opens the door to option packaging for new and existing cars that will be entirely software based. Build all the cars with the hardware components and then roll out licenced software packages in the future to take advantage of that hardware.

And as the article points out these new features make last month's cars less desireable now, and maybe more so in the future.

 

Only if a $35k car and a $71k one are competitors.

 

The top end Tesla Model S P85D costs $138k fully optioned.

 

I wanted to stick near base price.
From memory the S 60 is $67k and the D option will be $4000.

 

The D on P85 is not just $14,600 option. It actually cost over $20K. You can't choose the D option only. It adds other options such as 21" wheel and the tech packagas mandatory upgrade.

 

GM is nervous about Tesla - why would GM have a committee to keep watch on Tesla? Could Tesla be boxing in the market, making it very difficult for GM from entering the high end market? Think Cadillac. What happens when Tesla enters the lower end of the market with an expansion of their product line?

GM is worried.

DBCassidy

 

As they should be. They've been able to coast along on their name for some time now, but it's quickly getting tarnished due to their increasingly shoddy workmanship and high number of repairs on many of them.

This argument could be used for any carmakers though. If you make crap, and develop a reputation for making crap, then it's going to be a hard stigma to shake off. Remember all those acronyms people used to joke about Ford ("Found On Road Dead" or "Fix Or Repair Daily")? While they have been getting better lately, a lot of my coworkers, family, and friends still won't consider buying one due to their past unreliability.

Will be interesting to see what carmakers bring out to compete with the Model 3 when Tesla releases that. Unless they really drops the ball on it (not likely), or competitors come out with some really good alternatives (good for us due to a selection of choices in cars, which will make said products more reliable and cheaper), I can see Tesla taking their share of the market share pie, and eating it in front of the other carmakers.

Let's hope Tesla is making GM and the others shake in their boots, so they're forced to make quality vehicles.