Bypass Oil Filtration?

Hi again Guys,

Further to my post about oils, obviously clean oil is best for one's engine.

Many bigger, more expensive (truck, ship etc) engines come factory fitted with Bypass Oil Filters. Here there used to be some aftermarket ones available for retrofits that used loo rolls to remove moisture and fine particles, but I think they have disappeared. Maybe not, in the US?

I realise there are three or four main sources of oil contamination that must be considered - wear metals, combustion products, intake air dirt, oil breakdown byproducts. Many of these can be removed by suitable Bypass Filters - obviously particulates such as wear metals and airborne dirt, some combustion products (carbon, burnt oil products) and moisture, while others react with and are neutralised by the oil additives (e.g. acidic combustion byproducts such as sulphuric acid, etc). Bypass filters are not going to help much with that, except for moisture removal and thereby reduced acid formation. If it wasn't for the loss and depletion of the oil additives, (as I understand it) synthetic oil would last almost indefinitely, but its life can nevertheless be substantially extended (and the life of the engine along with it) by Bypass Filtration.

Has anyone here (Bob Wilson?) fitted Bypass Filtration to their Prius, or can anyone add their knowledge on this question, please? A recommended bypass filter kit, perhaps?

 

Thanks Easy Rider 2 & JimboPalmer for your comments.

Would you mind elaborating, please? Do you mean by bypassing 100% of the oil pump output through the bypass filter, or, onto the road? What is your purpose in employing scare tactics, please?

Who says it has to be just for my own Prius? Here in NZ, we now have thousands of Prii...

However, while I agree that car manufacturing has been refined to the point where everything starts to break or wear out at the designed-in expiry date, I am also aware that car (and especially truck) makers derive much of their profits from selling what should often be unnecessary spare parts to their captive customer-victims. Since it is quite apparent from this forum that the Prius is at best a delicate and fragile animal, and the IC engine typically starts to smoke and burn oil (well?) before the rest is worn out, I'm still interested in the options to extend its life. Down here, like in the US, oil burning will result in a failure at annual vehicle safety checks, and that is inconvenient and expensive.

Sure, while most of the oil molecules (especially in synthetic oil) do not wear out, and therefore could be re-used indefinitely, I agree that trying to extend oil life is indeed a fool's errand. That is not my purpose. I purely want to extend my engine life, which I can contribute to by keeping the oil cleaner. I am not looking for a toilet roll filter, but a serious, genuine bypass filter retrofit kit. I'm also a bit too lazy and cheap to want to change my oil far more frequently than recommended, and would prefer to simply filter my oil better.

If Bypass Filtration is not of value, why do larger, more expensive engines so often still have it from the factory? Check out most large truck engines. They commonly have 2, 3, 4 or more spin-on oil filters. One or more of these is usually a bypass filter, though some filter models incorporate both in the one filter.

Is this because the manufacturers like to fit them in order to reinforce and trade off a fallacy that still exists in the minds of their customers, or is it, as makes very good scientific sense, because removing fine particulate contaminants from the oil does improve engine longevity?

I mean, would you go out and buy a pack of oil that already contains FREE "fine particulate contaminants" and happily pour that into your engine?

Could some of those in this forum who support / use UOA (Used Oil Analysis), please chime in with some data on what Oil Analysis tells you about wear metals and other particulate contaminants in your oil? Isn't that part of the basis for deciding when your oil needs changing?

I know Oil Filters have improved in recent years - that's easy to see by how much smaller they have become. However, these are "Full-Flow" filters, and can, due to practical limitations, only remove the larger particles. That's why Bypass Filtration is still used, to remove the particles that are too small to get on a single, high-speed pass through the full flow filter.

Anyone aware of any good kits?

 

Thanks ER2,

though I didn't find your answer very helpful. At all.

Would you not consider that the case of the Prius ICE, which is reported by many to start oil-burning at quite an early stage of its life (well before the rest of the car is clapped out), COULD be a good case for Bypass Filtration? Surely a Bypass Filter kit is a lot cheaper (and much better economic sense) than a premature engine replacement or overhaul?

I think it is... But at the end of the day, it depends on what is causing the premature oil burning. Is it wear, and what is its cause? From what I've read here, it's definitely wear-related, but whether cleaner oil will help or not is unknown. If it's a (lubrication or materials) design issue, cleaner oil isn't going to solve it.

I know that the modern Briggs and Stratton engines with their cheap alloy bores are very prone to wear failure which can be reduced by frequent oil changes (but who does that?) Maybe the mechanism is similar in the Prius.

ER2, do you have more evidence (science / facts / economic analysis) for your claims that it's a waste of time?

Anyone here apart from me interested in giving this a go?

 

Hi there Valde,

Great information, thanks!

Can you point me to where it comes from?

If it's due to gum formation causing the ring grooves to clog up, this could be caused by several things:

* Bad fuel - ethanol plus impurities?
* Inferior oil - cheap mineral oil breaking down under high temperature
* Inferior oil - insufficient / inadequate detergents not keeping the gums from depositing
* Incorrect oil grade? Too thick, so doesn't circulate through ring grooves and return holes fast enough?
* Poor maintenance - not changing the oil often enough
* Poor design - grooves too tight, rings too weak, wrong shape, etc, insufficient oil flow through ring grooves etc
* Cold running
* Stop/start running??? Could be a problem with the Prius!
* ???

If what you suggest is correct, then it has to be the best argument I have seen for only using high quality synthetic oils in a Prius.

Even so, if it's gum causing rings to stick, better filtration that removes gum would tend to help, I guess? I can't imagine that a full flow filter would remove gum (pre-cursor?) molecules, but maybe they never make it into the circulating oil anyway, do you know?

Anyway, I didn't get this result in my earlier searches but here's an old PC thread that's relevant:

Bypass filter install | PriusChat

Cheers,
Al

 

Hi ER2,

This is fun!

So, why so vehement? If you have the proof, I could understand, but as you say, you don't. So, this is merely your opinion? To which, you are, of course, entitled.

Of course they do. But automakers are in business for one reason: to make money. Happens, they make it by churning out cars (or trucks). They are NOT in business to make cars that last a long time - even Toyota learnt the lesson of that mistake. They want to make cars that sell, and sell well. They don't do that by making cars that last.

In fact, the car makers want to convince everyone that they need to buy a new car every three years, and they want the people to think that maybe 5 years is an acceptable life for a modern car. So, OF COURSE, they don't want to add ANYTHING that will "unnecessarily" extend the life of their products. Bypass Filtration would have to fall into that category.

Look at Japan. The government there has continually tightened the regulations so that after a few years, it is no longer economic to try to keep a car on the road. Cheaper to go out and buy a new one. That is why so many countries (like mine) are now flooded with cheap used Japanese imports - because the cars have been pushed off the Japanese roads not by wearing out but by legislation. They still have lots of life left in them, and we buy and drive them down here like there's no tomorrow.

Anyway, one thing you can bet on is that the Japanese Government, with its history of not looking after its citzens, DIDN'T pass these laws for the safety and benefit of its citizens. They passed these laws to help their car makers make more money. Who got paid, I can't say, but the car makers will be making far more as a result.

As they do...

Blessed are the believers!

Sorry that I'm not one.

 

This may interest some of you.

They even have a sample install on a Honda Insight (not a Prius), though the pictures don't tell you a lot.


By-Pass Filter Installations


Car Applications

• 2008 Chevrolet Malibu (pdf 110k)
• 2007 Ford Mustang GT (pdf 280k)
• 2006 Honda Insight 1.0L Hybrid (pdf 460k)
• 2005 Volkswagen Golf TDI (117k PDF)
• 2001 Toyota Camry 2.4L (pdf 213k)
• 1994 Dodge Caravan (346k PDF)
• BMW 325i (pdf 164k)
• 1981 BMW 528i (213k PDF)

Plus LOTS of other examples.

 

I take it you are implying that I am an AMSOil salesman in disguise. If you (had) read some of my earlier posts, I think you would be able to tell that that is FALSE. That is still the case.

What proof can you offer of your claim that they encouraged their sales people to trawl forums promoting their products?

Please, put up, or shut up!

Good Idea!

I certainly didn't post the original post with the intention of engaging in endless, pointless banter. I was hoping to get some valid science, some facts, some worthwhile information, not a load of scare mongering and unsubstantiated opinion, thanks all the same.

I'm delighted to be able to agree with you on that further point!

Further to my original post in which I evidently made the mistake of mentioning toilet paper as a (historical) fine filter medium, I would like to comment that there is ABSOLUTELY no reason to imagine that it (crap paper) might be suitable for any kind of oil filtration. It was never intended for that purpose, and is in fact designed to disintegrate on prolonged contact with water. Lord knows what adverse effects it or its water soluble glues may have on oil additives.

All I am really after is some facts on the value and availability of Bypass Oil Filtration systems, since (my) logic plainly suggests that any hard particulate contaminants (e.g. cylinder, bearing and gear wear metals from anywhere in the powertrain) in the circulating lube oil are guaranteed to cause additional wear that would not occur in their absence.

I welcome factual input.

 

WHY NOT?

What are your reasons for owning a Prius?

Presumably, not for conservation then? A Fashion Statement!!! ?


P.S. If God isn't, chances of finding that out when you die are fairly slim!

 

HEAR HEAR, John!

Yes, I would want to install it on both (separately, of course!) though I didn't mention that earlier. I have considered the issues though. To install on the Transmission presents much bigger difficulties. AFAIK, there is only a low pressure oil circulation pump in the transmission, and it is probably difficult to tap into. I would use a separate, small electric oil pump to pull the oil out of the transmission and push it through the "Bypass" filter then the Oil Cooler. Probably run it off the same signal (even, circuit) as the Inverter/Transaxle coolant pump. The flow only needs to be a few litres per hour. (I haven't yet found a suitable 12V oil pump though...)

However, AIUI, Toyota advises not to fit a towbar to a Prius. I believe this is due to the high risk of overheating (burning out) your electric motors due to the higher currents and duty cycles that will be required. I think, if you want to tow a caravan, you would need to install temperature probes to monitor your motor temperatures, and drive very cautiously! And rather than cooling your transmission OIL, I'd look at increasing the cooling capacity of the existing Inverter/Transaxle cooling system. If that is working well, the oil will be cooled incidentally, and you'll save yourself a lot of hassle.

I suggest you read (if you haven't already) the US Oak Ridge National Research Lab paper on the Toyota HSD as they did perform some very interesting load and duty cycle tests on the Prius electric motors, and this will give you a much better idea on what the motors can withstand - or can't! In reality, I think they already fly somewhat by the skin of their teeth!

Please, keep us posted!

 

OK! I'm impressed. The G2 Prius must be a lot tougher than I had been thinking.

What (OBDC device) do you use to monitor temps? I bought one off the Internet, but the CD was full of viruses, so I've never had the chance to use it. Do you know where the Prius Transaxle Temp Sensors are actually located?

On a side question, do you have all your ECUs running the latest firmware, do you know? Not sure where mine are at, but there are some annoying features. (Mine's an ex-JDM Import, so there are no local records.) For example, the Climate Control - when the Outside Temp is higher than the inside (Climate Set point?) temp at Power On, the system automatically assumes the Air Con is On even when it isn't, and sets the Air Control to Recirculate, which is rather annoying when the Air Con is actually Off.

Also, sometimes, my Engine Control ECU hiccups. After coming to a stop, it switches the engine Off based on some condition, then a split second later, before it has stopped, turns it back on. I get a jolt in the transmission as it does the Off/On glitch. Then, after a further 10 or 15 seconds running, finally turns it Off properly. Also, occasionally, before the engine has thoroughly warmed up, it turns the engine Off while rolling (maybe while braking?) but the engine stumbles and judders to a stop, resulting in juddering of the whole car, which is quite unnerving and starts to feel like ABS activation (but isn't).

Do you have any of these issues?

P.S. Love the extension Wing Mirror!