Which battery will you choose

When there is a real car, folks will have to make real decisions.

If we are dealing in fantasy, I want a Prius v PHV with a LiIon battery in the console upfront (per the 7 seat version in other countries) and an LiIon in back for good EV range while keeping the spare tire. I also want it to sparkle in direct sunlight and exhaust rainbows. Should be easy.

 

75 mpg will blow me away. 60 mpg won't do it. With 70 mpg, I'll be impressed. 65 mpg, and I'll think, good job, but not be blown away.

 

Unless the EV range gets up in the 80miles area, I don't care how far it can go. 12miles, 25miles, 30 miles, all useless for me. I have a Leaf to do that driving. The Prius is only used on long range trips now. If the Prius could do the Leaf's job with a 30KWh battery or so (with a plug obviously) and get standard 50mpg Prius numbers, I would buy that and consolidate cars.

 

I'm hoping the next gen PiP has at least 40-50 miles, along with the standard mpg the gen 4 has. And more importantly, I hope Toyota sells them nationwide this time around instead of only in certain states.

Otherwise I may just wait for the cheaper Tesla, and not worry about gas at all. And if I need to take a long distance trip, I'll probably just borrow someone's car while they use my Tesla. I've got a pretty big extended family for that if needed

 

confused writers? no way harry!

 

If I were to do this again, I'd go ahead with the LiIon battery. When I bought my Prius, I went for one that was pretty well loaded, just for the technology.

 

There's nothing to indicate that Toyota is committed to any real increase in PIP EV range. Thirty miles would be very useful for most on a daily basis, but chances are slim that will happen.

 

What ever Toyota has planned, they need to increase the EV range just to stay on top cause yhe other manufacturers are catching up & passing Toyota

 

Seeing that greenwash message spread is disappointing. Do you just happen to know when or how that belief was passed along to you?

More is not necessarily better and we certainly don't want to fall into the same trap as we did with speed & horsepower. This market is quite gullible, easy to convince that bigger is a sign of leadership. Misplaced priorities was a big contributor to automotive industry problems in the past. Let's not repeat those mistakes.

Those plug-in hybrids with larger battery-packs already are faced with the reality of not having anything competitive to sell and heavy dependence on tax-credits. Traditional vehicles pose far too large of a challenge to overcome. An expensive plug-in hybrid compromising storage/seating space and delivering low efficiency following depletion isn't a solution.

Toyota is working extremely hard to deliver a lot from a little. Convincing those who would otherwise purchase a Camry or Corolla is the goal, not trying to upstage other automakers.

 

I kind of hope NOT.

I don't like the idea of a two tiered Prius reality. That is...more expensive longer range Lithium or NiMh. I think Toyota needs to produce one, whichever one they choose or think best.

When I finally bought my "modest" Prius 2, The salesperson did not know I had spent literally years participating at Prius Chat. One of his sales pitches to me was that The Prius 2 had the exact same hybrid system as The 3 and 4. He stressed this several times. Not that he had to do so, but I think he wanted me to know that as far as "Hybrid Performance" I wasn't sacrificing that in buying the "Entry Level" Prius.

I would speculate that producing two types of Prius with two different hybrid batteries would be difficult, confusing and expensive. The parameters of how each battery would react being different, I would think would require entirely different software configurations. You experts can tell me I'm wrong about this. Perhaps I am.

I do think it might be neat to be able to buy a NiMH Prius, and then save up in 8+ years and perhaps replace the battery with Lithium, and perhaps this duality would lead to this possibility. But I'd still rather see a clean break.

How many do you produce in either configuration?

It's confusing enough with the Prius Family...Prius v, Prius c, in 2010 Prius II, III, IV..X...and today Prius 2, 3, etc. Do we really want to add the sub-DNA tweak of Prius NiMH and Prius Lithium?

IMO you make a clean break or evolution with the technology. Either STAY with NiMH or evolve to Lithium...but don't leave me with a forked evolutionary path.

 

The choice of engine-size and transmission-type has been around for decades... and has worked extremely well.

Why can't hybrids offer choices too?

 

I have a feeling that they are now making money on the Prius and they don't want to change that... I believe they should do Lithium in all the cars. I believe they should offer higher range as an option. I would not buy a PIP without at the least 25 to 30 miles of REAL range. My questions that I have not had answered is in the Plug in cars does the battery packs get charged back up as you are driving like my regular Prius and how long does it take versus the regular Prius? I don't like traveling highways. I like traveling back roads so I can use my battery, besides back roads are more interesting. I get about 52 to 55 mpg traveling 65 to 70 MPH on highways, but traveling the backroads I can get 58 to 63 MPG. I like the car being able to switch between different levels of REgeneration and if your car has this option, how long does it go before it needs to be repaired. I don't know anything about the Regen systems and would like to find out how they work?

 

I'd have to agree with The Electric Me regarding the battery. I don't think the average joe and jane will understand the difference between NiMH and Lithium batteries aside from what the salesperson tells them. And if they're just as clueless, well, that will be a problem. I knew more about the prius than the salesperson did when I was car shopping last month.

The other issue with different battery types is the price will vary wildly, for now at least. Sure, with different sized engines, there is a cost difference there too. But gas powered cars typically cost thousands less than a typical hybrid. Plus a bigger engine usually means faster car, so you know you get what you're paying for.

With different battery types, the price difference might be more like $6-9k for a NiMH vs Lithium battery. A different battery probably won't mean faster car unless it's a Tesla without the Tesla prices. Longer range, sure, but non-Tesla ev's are still largely mocked by the public at large for their short range, high cost, and long recharge time. Sure, it's not always true, but a lot of people still think a prius battery will cost $8000+ to replace, nevermind the 8 year/100k warranty on them and the fact that many priuses have driven 100k+ miles with no issues.

So unless the ev range is improved drastically with the more expensive model, like 40 mile range minimum (or 150 on a pure ev and short charge time. I know, people are demanding), and/or the mpg is really high, like 65-70 mpg without special hybrid driving, it might be a hard sell to convince the average person to switch from a gas car to a more expensive hybrid or ev short of gas going over $4 a gallon and staying up there.

 

Who?

Middle-Market is looking for an affordable solution. That means if it cost more than what they'd spend for a package upgrade (like leather, sunroof, stereo, wheels, etc) forget it.

The average person just plain will not pay a major premium, period. Price (that means a modest profit without tax-credit) must be competitive with vehicles they are deciding among... which includes non-hybrids.

That's how the technology will become mainstream.

 

All im saying is that the Prius became the #1 selling hybrid by pushing the envelope & I hope that Toyota continues to push harder to stay on top since the hybrid market is flooded.

 

The "hybrid" market is only flooded with. respect to the current audience.

The next step is a much deeper penetration into the mainstream, which will requires a push in a different direction.

 

You do have choices. It's called the Prius Family. And that's not even considering other hybrids available from Toyota and other manufacturers.

The specific here is "battery technology" and capabilities and the driving experience each would create for their respective Prius.

I'm definitely not against change and evolution, but I am for offering a consistent product.

And to me, with any evolution, there should be a eventual clear winner. Survival of the fittest.

I'm driving a Prius with a NiMH battery, and I would say I believe Lithium is the future. So embrace it..in totality, or admit you aren't ready to do so from a production or sales standpoint.

The whole motto of Prius has always been "To Go Before"

In my opinion offering two batteries "old technology" NiMH and the newer Lithium goes against this philosophy. It's keeping one foot in the past, and putting one foot in the future.

I don't really care which one they choose for the next Gen. But choose one.

I suspect on one level that perhaps this "dual" choice, is based more on fears of being able to keep up with production demands for just Lithium batteries alone.

If it's any consolation for anyone that disagree's with me? Is that my guess is if Toyota is going to do this? My fears about an inconsistent product and the confusion of having dual battery choices won't deter Toyota.

This is almost a "Too Big To Fail" production choice. If they have already decided to do it? Get ready for another decision when you purchase your next Prius.

 

No, there isn't a choice offered in a form similar to engine or transmission.

Offering lower & higher options is a normal business practice.

 

Yes, and a choice of battery options isn't choosing an engine or transmission either.

And I've always thought one of the best things about Prius, was that you were getting I thought great value whether you bought a Prius 2 or any higher model.

I know offering lower and higher "options" is an acceptable business practice.
Doesn't mean I have to like it, and/or that it is a good idea.