moving from prius gen3 to PIP. Regrets?

Let's have a technical discussion then.

I do believe that my 2012 Prius v goes through 5 stages of warm up in less than a minute and gets the iron/aluminum ICE up to a decent temp, because I can get EV mode and I see the engine coolant at +130F. You have tempted me to time it to make sure and then I can compare that to the same drive and warm-up time in the wife's 2013 PiP. I suspect that the PiP takes a little longer, but it could just be my frustration of the ICE turning on making it feel like an eternity. I invite you to search on "warm up stages" to see all the Prius ICE does in the first 45 - 50 seconds in normal temps.

In the winter I try to keep my ICE at 'decent temps' by applying partial grill blocking. It is amazing how fast the engine coolant temp goes down in the cold winters here in Syracuse when you don't have an always running gas ICE with all that excessive heat to also vent through the radiator. On cold winter days, I just want to wrap my Prius ICE in a thermal blanket sometimes, but it fires up at the right times and I just drive it

Why in your right mind (hard to think with my Toyota loving heart so I don't try) do you think that the 'Exhaust Gas to Engine Coolant' heat exchanger doesn't mainly do what it says it does, namely heat the Engine Coolant. That in turn heats the ICE, oil, and cabin. I think the exhaust system will still have plenty of heat to git rid of exhaust system moisture, even after giving some heat back to the Engine Coolant. Do you know anything specific that makes you think there is too much moisture in the Prius exhaust system?

You keep bringing up this "decent temp." I have to believe that the Toyota engineers haven't analyzed this to death and determined the exact temp to avoid all the bad moisture and then added a decent buffer to ensure no warranty issues or recalls happen. Are you basing decent temps on gas only engines?

Nothing wrong with a friendly technical discussion.

 

did bisco just call it a windscreen?

 

I guess you've never owned a regular Prius. Prius warms up the gas engine and brings the exhaust into operating temp quicker than a regular car. It does so by running the ICE in a special mode that generates more heat but less torque.

PiP was tuned further for faster warm-up. It takes 200 kJ of energy to bring the catalytic converter to 380 deg C. PiP uses 111 - 132 ml of gas (about two eggs) to do it, while providing cabin heat and some propulsion power.

 

You are not crazy. I felt the same.

Interior plastic feels cheaper because they switched to plant-based bio-degradable plastic. The doors have less cup holders but it appears to have used for the sound system (better bass).

The tonneau cover feels cheaper too, probably because it is lighter.

BTW, how fast did you go up the hill? How much EV power (EV bar) did you use?

 

usb,
You sound like you understand this system!
Yes I owned a '10 Prius IV w/solar-sunroof. Loved it !!
But after a year I realized for a few bucks more I could be driving a much higher tech car and never burn gas on my commute.
Also no engine maintenance needs for a long time.
I briefly looked into a PiP but the whole <62<13 thing was worthless to me. Plus they are not available where I live. Why?

I don't understand this statement: "running the ICE in a special mode that generates more heat but less torque."
You next talk about warming the cat converter to a proper temp. I thought the start up phase of any ICE is to minimize emissions.
That's when they are at their dirtiest, correct? What could this 'special mode' possibly be?

And 110-130°F is not a warmed up engine. What about the engine oil? After a series of this type of on/off cycle, isn't moisture building up in the oil?
To my old school thinking a warmed up engine is one where the coolant and the oil is above 180°F for a while to burn off moisture.

 

still trolling, repeating his already disproven statements...

 

The last time we compared, you had higher EV ratio (68%) while I had 44%.

We used the same amount of gas per mile because we both got around 100 MPG. However, I used less electricity.

In term of efficiency, my PiP got 75 MPGe while your Volt got 60 MPGe.

Emission is below SULEV. Slight increase in hydro-carbon but lower in CO2.


To put it into perspective, 50 MPG Prius that warms up the gas engine is cleaner than Volt using average US mix electricity.

EPA rated 50 MPG Prius emission as 222 gram/mile. Volt is around 230 gram/mile (if operating only on EV).

 

Again, a bigger battery does not equal higher tech. If you really think the Volt system is more sophisticated and "higher tech" than the Prius system then you clearly have no clue about technology or engineering.

 

It is needed to compensate, perhaps.

 

you're feelings about the gen III interior reflect those of many. all the best!

 

The PiP is not king of every “higher tech” feature, but:

Examples of “higher tech”:
-most fuel efficient ICE
-most efficient electric motor (for weight of vehicle)
-highest regeneration recapture
-highest energy density battery cells
-best reliability history
-best synergy system between ICE and electric motor

Not examples of “higher tech”:
-bigger battery and therefore more EV range
-I think the displays look cool
-My vehicle serves my needs well
-is cost competitive because of higher subsidies

 

LOL.

 

If a PiP is so great why is it limited availability?
How could it serve me better than burning no gas for weeks at a time. I plug in at work so it's even less expensive for me...
The bigger battery allows it to be a proper EV for all 4 seasons. 25-50 miles seasonally. There is no work around. No 'special' driving style needed to keep it an EV. When on a road trip it gets 36- 40 mpg. Where I live there is NO PLACE for a <62 MPH car. A PiP would be worthless to me if I could get one.
The higher tech allows me to burn NO GAS. SAVE LOTS of MONEY. HARDLY EVER POP the HOOD. etc. That is technology in action.
The PiP is '90's tech,,,,, with a,,, bigger battery.
Shall we talk about safety ratings and fun sporty handling?

Back to the tech talk.... again.... ( I work in technology and engineering on vehicles way more high tech than either of these PHEV's.)
usb, the: "running the ICE in a special mode that generates more heat but less torque." question. What is this special mode? Does it pollute more?
Does it exist?

EDIT: usb, you nailed the dirty little secret about EV's. In most parts of the country they are dirtier per mile than a clean gas burner, like a Prius. (But then there is the well to tail pipe discussion.)
However, they are always less expensive per mile. And they WILL become cleaner. And they can be ZERO emission NOW! I got to get after my home solar installation....

ps. I really did miss the post about the OP needing 3 in the back. That should have been case closed. But then the tech talk took off....

pss, I could make a tech list like iplug listing the tech differences, but it might 'rile' the fanbois that don't want a tech discussion. They won't like it.
(have you ever heard of motor to motor braking once a battery is topped and regen braking stops?)

 

Where is the data backing up the regen claim? I'm doubting it since the PiP is sometimes unable to recapture enethy due to its limited battery capability.

Where is the data on the PiP cell energy density. I have never seen any detailed battery cell specifications for the PiP.

I assume you are comparing against the Volt. Some of your other statements may not be true if compared against all plugins.

 

Bill,
You are nothing but a troll who has made this forum much, much less inviting to come to. All you do is rile people up with absolutely nothing to add to the conversation. How about you keep to threads that are directly asking about a Volt. If you read the OP he is not asking about a Volt. Is your reading comprehension that bad?

 

Perhaps, but I averaged 44 mpg HV in my Volt from CA to OH driving through extended rain storms and dodging snow in South Dakota. On my way back with nicer weather and an oil change I'm averaging 48 mpg HV.

I'm relaxed and enjoying the countryside as I listen to old time radio shows from archive.org and various modern podcasts. I could easily do that in a PiP and do much better on the road trip mpg but I would miss the ability to plugin for extended driving at my stopping points. You drive more aggressively which is part of the reason for usb getting better MPGe and that's fine, within reason.

 

Jeff, don't encourage him. He doesn't need any more reason to think the Volt is the best car ever made or ever will be made.

 

He'll change when he buys his next car, whatever that is, and then he'll be bothering people in the Volt forum.

 

Jeff, no claims here. That's why I said "The PiP is not king of every “higher tech” feature". It is the king of at least a couple features listed.

The point, however, was that our resident troll has still not shown how his vehicle has "higher tech" features but continues to list only the "not examples of higher tech" features.