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Recurrent Power Failure After HV Battery Replacement - help!

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by tarawow, Aug 16, 2014.

  1. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Its unrealistic to expect a woman to be able to replace the battery. Its quite heavy and she would have no experience working around the 12 volts. Last place you want someone to learn on is the Prius very unforgiving 12 volts and tough location.
     
    #21 edthefox5, Aug 21, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2014
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  2. tarawow

    tarawow Junior Member

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    Car just died AGAIN after replacement of the 12V, going on the highway at 42mpg. Had a full tank of gas (well, I drove 16 miles on a full tank before it conked out). Have had the car back for less than a week.

    Aye! Having it towed to a different dealer this time to get a diagnostic. Am running out now to check the throttle body and MAF sensor before the tow truck comes. Anything else I can/should check out in order to arm myself before another dealer looks at it?
     
  3. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    How will you do this check ?

    Do you have a good code reader ??
     
  4. tarawow

    tarawow Junior Member

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    I've cleaned the throttle body and MAF sensor before - would I not be able to tell by inspecting them whether they were gunked up (and thus possibly causing the problem?) Forgive my naivete on this, but I'm trying to learn.

    Don't have a code reader but will consider getting one (not that it seems to matter much yet so far). Will see if the new dealer pulls a different code...
     
    #24 tarawow, Aug 26, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2014
  5. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Don't take my comment to imply that inspection is not possible; I'm just wondering what you actually do.
    A dirty MAF sensor would throw a code

    Definitely get a code reader. I recommend a BT transceiver and smartphone app. If your phone is Android then the app 'Torque' is great.
     
  6. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    I would personally escalate this issue to Toyota HQ, which is in Torrance. Call them and tell them the car has been breaking down and causing an extreme safety concern to you and the driver's around you. Tell them you've brought the car to the Marina dealer and they cannot solve this issue and it continues to shut down while you are driving.

    They most likely will get this straighten out for you. It's a serious hazard and they don't want you to continue driving that vehicle without having it properly diagnosed (hopefully by a qualified Prius engineer). I would request a rental car until this issue is resolved since the car is still under CA hybrid warranty and all this started after the warranty battery replacement.
     
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  7. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Hmmm this is rare.

    Is the car throwing a little picture of a car icon on the mfd?

    Is the car throwing a big red triangle?

    And lastly when the car dies does it give you any warning like it starts chugging and missing right before the ICE dies or just it instantly goes away without any drama? How is the car's drivibility way before it starts this? Runs smooth good pickup?

    Going to need all the codes and especially the code subsets please: XXXX-XXX
     
  8. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    The OP should insist on troubleshooting exactly by the book and not some idiotic throwing parts at the car that obviously doesn't work.
     
  9. tarawow

    tarawow Junior Member

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    Thanks friendly_jacek, I'm working on it! Ed, attached are pics of the warning lights that came on: red triangle, yellow check engine, and yellow exclamation point on the dash (turn signal is on from me pulling over), plus the red exclamation point on the upper left corner of the digital display. Car was traveling fine then suddenly - no warning of any kind - felt resistance in the accelerator pedal and that the car was 80% unresponsive to my foot on the gas - I'd say probably 10 seconds later all the lights came on and the car was fully unresponsive. From there I coasted and managed to exit an off-ramp.

    Once the car came to a full stop on the surface street, I put it in park, let it sit for a minute, then put it in drive and tried to accelerate again - nothing. I powered the car off, sat for a minute, turned the car back on - the lights came on again (except for the yelow exclamation point). I put the car in drive and it did work, weakly! I managed to drive the 3/4 of a mile home at 15 mph.

    I'd driven 100 miles since picking it up from the dealer a week ago, and, unlike what I posted in my first response, did not feel any sluggishness driving her at any point in the intervening week. Silly me, though that meant maybe we had gotten to the bottom of it!

    Car is at a new dealer now. Will post codes when I get them. And just fyi, here's a brief recap of problems to date:

    Prior to 2/14/14, car working great! Have replaced tires twice and water pump. Otherwise, no probs.
    2/14: 120, 843 miles - Car gives red triangle without notice or change in performance while driving on streets. Bring it into Marina del Rey (MDR) Toyota. HV battery needs to be replaced. They repair it and return it to me on 2/18.
    2/20: traveling on highway at 52 mph, car suddenly loses power. Gas gauge at 3 pips. Have it towed to MDR. They pull code P3190 and assess it as out of gas. Fill car with 7.65 gallons of gas and it works. Off I go. Car gives a little resistance when acceleraing at highway speeds from this point on.
    5/11: traveling on highway at 50 mph, car suddenly loses power. Gas gauge at 3 pips. I pull into a Chevron and refill with 7.2 gallons. After refilling, performance is back to normal, lights go off after 15 minutes. Did not return to dealer b/c I figure I am a dope and let the gas get too low.
    6/24: 125K service at independent mechanic
    8/15: traveling on highway at 50 mph, car suddenly loses power. Gas gauge at 7 pips. Have it towed to MDR. They pull code P3190, C2318, C2300 and assess the problem as 12 volt battery and replace it. Car performance no longer sluggish.
    8/26: traveling on highway at 42 mph, car suddenly loses power. Gas gauge full. Have it towed to new dealer.

    Awaiting diagnosis now...












    photo 1.JPG photo 2.JPG
     
  10. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Those lights look so familiar, like when I had to change out my transaxle.
     
  11. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Yes you have the car turtle on in the mfd which is 100% hybrid issue. I'm with JC looking like the trans or maybe the Hybrid battery.

    You have to start looking at the battery level in the consumption screen which in this pic shows a very empty battery. Is the fan coming on in
    the back seat?. hard to miss as it is very loud. And watching the consumption screen battery level does it go from full to empty quite fast.

    You've been chasing the engine when in fact the engine may be fine its either you have a bad MG in the trans or the replaced Hybrid battery is bad. The dealer sucks. A quick check with the Toyota Techsteam software and a delta check of the battery will tell you immed. what the deal is
    with the battery.

    The key I think is your first post where you state the car was sluggish with a new Hybrid battery. Thats not good. A new hybrid battery should have made the car feel brand new performance wise.

    When the car feels sluggish you need to watch the hybrid battery charge level. Its probably always really low.

    Btw, what is the history of the car? Bought used? if so please go to Toyota.com/owners and join and post the vin. It will show you every instance where the car was entered into dealer service in the US. That is the Toyota dealer service database. See what led up to the previous owner selling the car.
     
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  12. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    In my experience, the database is not very reliable. After a few years some of the visits get purged. I entered my cars and was disappointing to see how much was missing.

    Another thought. When the dealership replaced the HV battery, maybe it wasn't battery problem, but some other un/mis-diagnosed fault with hybrid system.
     
  13. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    As Bisco said: one chicken, two eggs ;)
     
  14. tarawow

    tarawow Junior Member

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    Update!

    Brought my car into North Hollywood Toyota (new dealer!) Wed morning 8/27. They pulled codes:

    P3190
    P0A0F

    The dealer told me they found oil build-up in the intake manifold, and they needed to clean the intake manifold, throttle body, fuel injectors and spark plugs, which seemed consistent with what some of you suggested on this thread and my previous thread. I greenlit the fix and picked up car on Friday morning and seemed to work fine.

    Cut to: just now (7pm on Sunday 8/31). Have driven my car about 30 miles since I picked it up from the dealer. I start my car as usual (foot on the brake, power button) and new problem: the check engine light flashes on quickly, power light temporarily goes orange and then dark, and now no other dash lights come on. The consumption screen shows the battery is full for what it's worth. I power off the car, power it on - same deal. It will, however, drive! (not that I can see whether I'm in drive or neutral), but it's very sluggish. A still of the dash is below (it's all dark - but the car is actually on) and I posted a video of my drive home which will be online shortly - link at bottom of post - (yes, I live literally a block away from the coffee shop where I was parked - don't make fun - it's LA). While the gas gauge is not visible, gas should be at or near full (I filled up the tank before the car died on 8/26 - drove 16 miles that day and prob another 30 since, so should only have eaten into the supply by a gallon).

    Frustrated does not begin to describe how I feel. I plan to call the dealer (again) and corporate (again) on Tuesday, but with no way to make it out to labor day festivities and some time to kill, what else can/should I check? I'm not afraid to run diagnostics and open the hood, but I am a newbie, so if anyone has some suggestions as to what I can check, please let me know (and feel free to point me to other threads). Am planning to check the 12 volt, and manually inspect the oil, throttle body, MAF sensor. Will also be purchasing a code reader as per SageBrush's recommendation. Anything else?

    I'll continue tooling around the forum for other ideas too. Many thanks in advance.

    P.S. This vehicle was purchased NEW in '05 from Marina del Rey Toyota, and at the very least I've been a maniac about regular maintenance every 5K, and have logged every time I've filled up the car with gas. Up until this Feb when the HV battery was replaced, I've had zero performance problems with the car. I'll note that when the red light came on back in Feb, I first took it into my independent shop and they pulled codes P3000 and P0A80; these codes were confirmed when I brought it into the dealer and they wrote the following in their notes:

    H.V. battery block #7 is weak
    890111...T-1;8A...T-2;73
    Replace H.V. battery and transfer all parts

    At the time they also recommended I service the cooling fan, which I did to the tune of $230.

    That was a long P.S. Let me know what else I can tell you about the car!

    youtu.be/_BubREOTEOY



    Prius_Aug31_2014.jpg
     
    #34 tarawow, Aug 31, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
  15. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Wow. I would be past frustrated by now.
    All I can do is say I hope things turn out OK.

    In your shoes I think I would give this last Toyota dealership a last chance to get things right. If they fail ask here for a recc to a better independent Prius mechanic in your area.
     
  16. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    DTC P3190 is logged by the engine ECU and means that the engine has abnormally low power while DTC P0A0F is logged by the hybrid vehicle ECU and confirms the engine did not start when it was supposed to.

    Following is a list of potential suspect areas regarding P3190:

    Air induction system
    Throttle body
    Fuel pressure
    Engine
    Mass Air flow meter
    Out of fuel
    Engine coolant temperature sensor
    Crankshaft position sensor
    Camshaft position sensor
    ECM

    Regarding a code reader, I would get Mini VCI which requires a laptop that runs Windows XP or Windows 7, 32 bit OS. This is a Toyota Techstream clone and you will have almost the same functionality as the Toyota dealer tech has.

    What is the current fuel level in the tank?

    When the car is IG-OFF, make sure you can rotate the spring-loaded throttle plate shaft 90 degrees, freely. If there is any binding in the movement that could be the root cause of your engine's having low power or refusing to start. Use a flashlight to inspect the throttle body interior and the bottom of the throttle plate, all should be nice and clean.

    I suggest you ask your dealer service dept to check the fuel line pressure, which should be at least 43 psi when the engine is at idle speed. Also check the wiring harness connectors to the camshaft and crankshaft position sensors. If you don't have confidence in your local dealers try Longo in El Monte.

    I understand that you now have another problem which is that the combination meter does not light up to display speed, fuel gauge, etc.? If my understanding is correct, consult my thread here:
    T-SB-0172-09 Combination Meter - Intermittent Display | PriusChat
     
    #36 Patrick Wong, Aug 31, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2014
  17. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    That is one heck of a coincidence, to have the CM go out after dealer work.
     
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  18. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    There is extended warranty on those, right?

    BTW, Tara has a very sexy voice (this is supposed to be a complement).
     
  19. tarawow

    tarawow Junior Member

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    Haha, thanks for that. ;)

    The car has been at North Hollywood Toyota going on 2 days. Just listened to a message from the service rep who said that Toyota wanted him to order a fuel relay and so they're waiting on that but "in all honesty, I really don't know what's happening to your car."

    Yikes!
     
    #39 tarawow, Sep 3, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2014
  20. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Complementary no doubt, but I think you were giving a compliment.