30k service

Toyota knows their vehicles. I'm going with what they recommend.

 

All depends on how long you want to keep this car... Under 5 years, don't change the oil, over 5 or plan to keep forever, I would change it often...

 

One problem with that approach is that Toyota recommendations vary by country, and it can be non-obvious what if any differences exist between the countries in terms of use or environment.

E.g., while ATF exchange is not recommended in the US, it is recommended every 50k miles in Australia. And while no longer true, for years engine oil exchange was recommended every 5k miles in the US but every 10k miles in the UK.

This is yet another reason why DIY maintenance is such a boon. I don't sweat the extra small amount of money to run the higher frequency maintenance schedule.

 

If the windings on M/G1 and M/G2 break down, the resulting short circuit costs $5000. The Motor/Generators are cooled by the ATF that also lubricates the gears. My wacko theory is that metals worn off the gears tend to short circuit some windings on the M/Gs and that overheats the insulation and then it snowballs. If we keep the fluid free of built up metals, then it doesn't.

 

We should have a thread/survey started on people that have failed transaxle, whether or not they actually changed their fluid. That will better help us understand if the fluid changes do anything to prolong the transaxle or prevent it from failing

 

Given the huge variation in how the car is used, I cannot imagine the handful in transaxle failures telling us anything.

Would it surprise you to learn that people who baby their cars also change the ATF ?

 

I don't really know what's the reason the transaxles are failing, it probably has nothing to do with the fluid. It could just be lots of really high speed driving, compromising the performance of mg1 and mg2. I would like to hear at least from some people that had failures to know whether or not changing the fluid or not changing the fluid contributed to the failure.

I had a failure on my 2005 but I wasn't the original owner. But from all the records I have, the fluid is original. Failed at 150k

 

If you're in the San Francisco Area, take a look at this Art's Automotive site;

Prius 30k Service

 

So is there any completing argument against changing the trans fluid. The fact that the fluid turns from translucent red to murky black gunk seems to rule out the argument that it never goes bad.

 

"Toyota says it never needs changing" is the competing argument. It is a simple appeal to authority.

 

Color change is a very poor indicator of lubricant health.

 

Hmm. I never though of that possibility. I guess I am accustomed to looking at motor oil and seeing the sludge show as color change.
Here is the best spiel I ever heard about Toyota hybrid transmission fluid:
The windings are pulled and pushed around as the permanent magnets swing by. Microscopic vibrations are happening within the windings as you drive. Now soak the windings in broken down aft full of grit. The windings scrub off their own varnish and mg1 or mg2 shorts and fries.
Just something I heard in passing I have absolutely no evidence that this is true.

 

I think your first sentence answers the question in your last sentence. If they reverse their postion on transaxle fluid changes, it doesn't look good for them.

All I know: my nearby dealership has the WS-ATF fluid readily available. Also, the change is relatively straightforward, and not that expensive, even for a DIY'r. For a fully equipped shop with lifts, it is very easy.

 

Regarding the 30k service (as well as the 25k service)....

I'm currently at 29k miles and will be going in for an oil change around 30-31k as well as a tire rotation. I never went in for the free 25k service. So, the question is...will I be able to get the stuff that was to be included in the 25k for free when I do this at 30-31k? (obviously the oil change isn't included)

 

Unless they want to throw in the tire rotation for free, I would guess not. IIRC, tire rotation and a fluids check was all you were supposed to have had done at 25k, the dealer being paid by Toyota. Maybe if you add the trans service discussed above they might waive the rotation charge.

 

Are you saying that if you aren't able to get the tires rotated at 5,000 miles (because you're traveling or something) and want it done at 6,500 miles, they won't do it for free?

 

No, I had the 5000 mile service at about 6000 without any problem. But they won't do any free service, even if you missed one, once you're past 24000 miles/24 months.

 

I've been in the Prius community long enough to have spotted some trends, and for the Prius transaxle the prevailing trend is for very low failure rates and people who keep these cars for >150,000 tend to change the t/a fluid at 60K and thence about every 60K.
Still....Prius drivers are a worrysome bunch and we all have very strongly held opinions about politics, oil change frequency, ethanol, etc.

For me, it breaks down something like this:
1. There's a lot less heat in the CVT than there is in the ICE, and unlike the ICE it's a sealed system. No combustion, No dirt (normally), and not much for the fluid to do except keep things lubricated and provide a heat exchange.
Still? There are electrical windings that are insulated by paint and gears wear down, resulting in suspended metal particles.
If I were a Prius owner instead of just a driver, I would probably change out the fluid around 60K myself ($40 worth of fluid and an hour and a half of my time.) and something like every 60-ish thousand thereafter....if I were going to keep the car much past 100K.
It's not needed, but it's cheap insurance.
Otherwise?
I'd skip it. It's only a 500-1500 dollar gamble (see #3)
YMMV.
2. The reason that the folks in Aichi don't sweat the t/a fluid is because it's good enough to give their cars a 150,000 to 200,000 mile MTTF (mean time between failure) rate for their CVTs. That's good enough to give them coverage for the warranty periods and also good enough to preserve Toyota's branding.
That's all they care about. They don't give a fig about their dealer's service department, and from the shenanigans that I read about in this and other forums, they should do everything that they can to keep their cars OUT of the dealer's service bays.
YMMV
3. If you pay $5,000 for a replacement CVT then you're one of the people that P.T. Barnum was talking about 150 some years ago. You can probably buy one for about $500 on eBay from a donor car, and if you can't figure out how to install one or find a mechanic locally that can noodle it out for about $1500 I'd be very surprised.
4. There's about a 5-percent chance that the dealership will muck up the t/a fluid replacement and a 100-percent chance that they will over-charge for this service, or try to fleece you for some other unnecessary service......based on service department's miss and hit rates with getting the oil level right in the ICE.
I do my own maintenance.
When infirmity finally catches up with me (opinions vary....) I'll develop a relationship with a local, fairly honest and fairly competent independent mechanic, and pay her or him a fair labor rate.
They'll be sprinkling rock salt on the sidewalks in HELL before I use a dealer for maintenance or repair that I have to pay for.

YMMV

 

Just do whatever makes you happy.

 

I'll amend this to: very easy after the first time. The fill hole bolt was on so tight on my car I had to go buy a breaker bar.

Oh, and threading the tube to the fill hole from above was a bit of an annoyance. Next time I am going to have a stiff wire handy (like from a wire hangar) to make that step simple.