Prius c's battery should store 3x energy

Exactly. The car draws a specific amount of current at a specific voltage. Increasing the battery storage capacity will only extend the length of time it can use it before the battery runs down.

My other point is that extending EV range on a non-plug-in is self-defeating, because it only allows you to burn fuel inefficiently for a longer period of time.

 

Let me try a different tactic: Your sentence is wrong. Very little comes from regen braking. That is true of my Civic Hybrid and my observation of my Prius shows the same thing.

If I'm driving down the highway at 40 and the battery gradually climbs from 1/2 to near-full, I know it did not come from braking (because the braking was never used). It had to come from somewhere else (the engine).

I 100% agree with John1701a.
(faints)

 

Well, I think both myself and physics disagree with you. If you wanted to make a really uneconomical electric-hybrid vehicle, you would use the engine to charge the battery instead of driving the wheels directly. One of those was called the Fisker. The actual mpg of that car (not including plug-in energy) was very dismal. Check out the 20 mpg rating on "gasoline-only: Compare Side-by-Side

Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive Hybrid technology How hybrid works
http://www.ae.pwr.wroc.pl/filez/20110606092430_HEV_Toyota.pdf

 

Well then it appears both Honda and Toyota did make an "uneconomical hybrid vehicle", because that's how both my Civic and my Prius operate. When I'm going down the highway and not braking, the battery gradually fills up (from the engine). In Honda forums we call it a "trickle charge" because it's almost-always present & measurable. (I don't know the Toyota terminology.)

 

Are you seriously claiming that the Civic and the Prius gas engines are not connected to the drive-train, and put all their energy into the battery instead? If so, you should read the technical material I provided.

If someone wants to degrade their fuel economy with a non plug-in hybrid, just run it in EV mode until the battery is depleted, then the engine will have to charge it back up again. This method is far more wasteful than just running it in HV mode all the time.

 

Please show me where I made that claim. Go on. Quote me where I said that.

 

Exactly where I said the Fisker was made like that, and you said the Honda and Toyota were made the same.

 

Please quote where I said "Honda and Toyota hybrids are made the same as Fisker". I never said that. Here's what I actually said:

"If I'm driving down the highway at 40 and the battery gradually climbs from 1/2 to near-full, I know it did not come from braking (because the braking was never used)." - There is only one place where that energy could come from, and it is smart obvious.

 

I asked if you were seriously claiming that. Apparently you weren't.

 

Wrong, wrong, wrong. If I'm driving down the highway at a steady speed, and the battery gradually climbs from 1/2 to near-full, I know it did not come from braking (because the braking was never used).

 

All that tells me is that the battery was low, and needed recharging. When I use mine in HV mode, it generally stays recharged.

 

(sigh). The battery is NOT charged almost entirely from braking. The reality is that braking recovers very little energy. 1 maybe 2 bars per brake event. That's it.

 

It depends on how much you use the EV mode, which of course, depletes the battery. If you run it on HV mode all the time, you save more fuel, because the engine charges the HV battery much less (hardly at all in my case.)

 

Don't say I didn't warn you.

 

Against logic?

 

The engine is likely charging the battery when you're not even aware of it. As John1701 said: During low-power demand, excess engine power will be redirected to the battery.

 

You kept asserting, "you're wrong." but you couldn't back it up with evidence. It eventually came out that you observed your battery charging while you drive, but it was apparent that this was because your battery had run down (presumably from driving in EV mode). I provided technical references which show that the best mileage is obtained in HV mode, not EV mode, because of all the losses involved with conversion. In HV mode, the Prius gets exceptional mileage, because it doesn't have to keep charging the battery, but using EV mode degrades that performance. Want to sigh again?

 

I never use the EV button in my Prius, and my Civic hybrid doesn't have such a mode. Please be so kind as to do me a favor, and stopmaking nice person umptions ofwhymy battery empties & gradually recharges itself as I cruise down the highway.

 

Why would you have to engineer an entire new car? I feel like we're talking in circles here. Just throw a Lithium battery in. The increase in power will allow the motor to overcome the current inhibitions placed on the electric motor that Toyota has placed on it due to the smaller battery. This will allow the motor the freedom of running at closer to its full capabilities... thus producing more power and giving you more range.

I understand that it would be more inefficient than our current model. But so what... I currently leave my house every morning with three bars (long neighborhood) and by the time I get to work (6.2 miles) my battery is full (no braking, level road, speed limit of 55mph). I don't see why this wouldn't be the case with a larger battery, except that I would leave my house in the morning with much more battery and might be able to use more of it.

 

It it was that easy don't you think they would have DONE that already ??
It just doesn't work that way. ALL of the components are engineered to work together.
No point of having a bigger electric motor in it than there is power to run.
And you keep talking about "range" but you have unlimited range already, as long as you keep putting gas in it.

ALL of the power consumed ultimately comes from burning gas in the engine.
Efficiency is the only game in town for a hybrid.
If you want more power, trade it in for something made for that.
If you want more electric range, get a plug in.

Your idea of simply dropping in a bigger battery and seeing some significant improvement, in anything, just won't happen.