Prius lost top slot in California - too long product cycle behind

how can prius lose to honda? prius is an automobile model, honda is an automobile manufacturer.

 

If you read the article, you find the top selling model was the Honda Accord. Since this is the last year of the current Prius hatchback's production, we will see what happens next.

 

oh, thanks. i thought we were talking hybrids here.

 

On other thread it's indicating otherwise...(release dates showing that the order is going in soon...) Speculation that the 2015 Prius will indeed be a carryover? I have no doubt though this will hurt sales even more. I expect Volt 1.0 price drop again before V0lt 2.0 to be released, of course I expect some Prius price drops too.

Next year I bet Ford will announce 2nd gen Energis too. And I think Misubishi will have some PHV models released, same with Chrysler believe it or not. I think the plugin minivan hybrid will be released? lol

I agree that Toyota's 6 year plan this time around might be stretch (ie, 3rd gen released 2009 which would indicate 4th gen 2015). In a way Toyota has been too comfortable with their hybrid, but this last time around with Gen III doing well, everyone's suddenly biting at their heels in **all** directions!

 

Would Toyota also be at fault for introducing the Prius c and Prius V? It was not clear if the top slot was for the whole Prius family or just the "Prius" model.

 

It's for the whole Prius line including c, v, and Plug-In. Here is the basic data source:
http://www.cncda.org/CMS/Pubs/Cal_Covering_1Q_14.pdf

I've been waiting for this CNCDA.org first quarter data...it shows:

• Toyota leading brand in CA: 21.5% vs. next closest brand Honda 12.4%
• Wow...1st Quarter: 56% of BEV's were sold in CA alone*
• Wow Wow...1st Quarter: 59% of PHEV's were sold in CA alone*

* I am dividing thru by total USA Plug-Ins sales data at ElectricDrive.org

 

Interesting reports, both, but I see something else embedded in the same data:

Source: Why Toyota Prius Lost The Top Slot As California’s Best-selling Car

In theory, the Camry hybrid is supposed to be the sedan version of a Prius and the numbers were good but not great. In contrast, the Honda Accord hybrid has much better sedan numbers than the Camry hybrid. Whether or not these numbers bear out in practice is still an open question but I don't see any structural issues that would keep the Accord hybrid from achieving between the Camry and Prius hybrid numbers. We should have better numbers in the fall.

Look at the chart titled "HYBRID AND ELECTRIC VEHICLE MARKET SHARE" in http://www.cncda.org/CMS/Pubs/Cal_Covering_1Q_14.pdf. If you add in increases in both "Plug In Hybrids" and "Electric", we get an increased sales percentage very close to the "Hybrid (excl. plug ins)" decrease. It supports the hypothesis that some Prius buyers are persuaded by the California HOV stickers. The percentage changes appear to match.

The first article suffers from a number of inconsistencies and factual errors:

• "First introduced into the U.S. market in 1997, the Prius has only seen two significant redesigns . . . "
• ". . . [Prius] consumers wanting to make a statement." vs ". . . Honda has a car that's toe-to-toe with the Prius on fuel economy . . ." vs ". . . 50 miles per gallon [Prius] compared to 47 mpg for the 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid."
• "The Insight, . . ., reached only 42 mpg since its U.S. debut in 2000."

So like many articles that try to explain what is happening in the fuel efficient market that includes hybrids, plug-ins, and diesels, we often find nuggets of facts buried in a clouds of less accurate statements. Sad to say, I have 'cherry picked' from the first article which is almost as bad because my judgement could be off too.

Still, thanks for posting both articles. Parts of them are consistent with my understanding of the Prius in the fuel efficient USA and California markets.

Bob Wilson

 

The Honda hybrid is $30k - $35k.
Let's talk sales a year from now.

 

It's too bad that they've put on a robots.txt file at http://www.cncda.org/robots.txt that prevents archive.org from archiving those PDFs...

 

Let's talk again when Honda's accord hybrid or hybrid line in general topples Toyota's hybrid line

Other day I was driving on highway...saw a dam nice 2014 civic hybrid (pretty dam sexy, silver color with full chrome white taillights) I wished prius could have such nice styling without much of a mpg hit; however, hopefully it wasn't due to car problem(s), but the driver pulled the car off to side of highway. I wouldn't mind a sexy civic/accord hybrid, but Honda needs to improve on its system (even my brother traded in his 09 civic hybrid because it already had a battery change couple years ago and it also started to have problems starting up)

 

What I find interesting is how it seems only in the fuel efficient vehicles is purchase price considered important. Ordinary gasser vehicles have a wide range of price-performance but I don't remember seeing purchase price used between gassers comparing their relative MPG. Of course, I'm not an objective observer.

Bob Wilson

 

Yep... your comment seems pretty much on the mark. I know there was plenty of discussion on Cruzetalk prior to the more costly diesel version coming out.

I'm sure that I and others have posted a similar rant as the one I posted at Having a hard time justifying 2010 Prius | Page 2 | PriusChat, partly stolen from someone else.

 

Prius loses top slot because it is 'long in the tooth'. So what?

The auto industry as a whole improves its designs every year. But no car model is redesigned every year, the typical redesign cycle is four to six years. So it should be no surprise that sometimes a model ranked at the top for a while gets knocked off by a newer design of a competing model on a different cycle. This turns into a game of repeating leap-frog. The bar is continually being raised, in the long run that benefits all us consumers.

Prius will get another shot when GenIV is introduced. I hope Toyota succeeds in pushing up the bar again.

 

The problem I have with Honda's offering is that the hybrid version is ONLY available well equipped for near $30k. I see no problems with offering expensive fuel efficient vehicles, but give people a range of options to choose from.

 

Much ado about nothing.
The Accord hybrid is a new car so it's getting a high "new car" blip, same as the 2010 Insight did when it was released. By that was only temporary. I expect by the end of the year, Accord hybrid sales will be lower than Prius again.

In other news:

I just saw a Lexus ad on youtube where they say. "Electric cars hold you back" (image of Leaf with 4 hour recharge time) "Lexus hybrids do not." So much for the apology.... Toyota is continuing its same anti-EV behavior.

 

It's not the accord hybrid that outsold the prius, it's the whole accord line that outsold the prius line, >.>, get it right at least

there's barely any accord hybrid or honda hybrids in general to take the hybrid crown from prius

 

The article reads, "Helped in part by its new [Accord] hybrid, Honda sold more Accord sedans than Priuses."

So they sold more Accord hybrids than Prius hybrids. (shrug). I guess they might have meant nonhybrid Accords, but the mention of the new Hybrid & wording is vague. (Kinda like the 2nd amendment is vague if guns are for "militia" only.)

 

I corrected the first bullet point in the comments section of the article and also clarified that the original Insight was a tiny 2-seater, and the second generation was the true competitor to the Prius. Sad when that information could have been very easily fact checked on Wikipedia (or any number of other resources) in just a few minutes.

 

My boss has a new Accord Hybrid and it is a lovely car. I've driven it once and it was a much nicer car than my Prius. That said.....I'm disturbed by a post I saw on the boards, recently, which showed the failure rates of Prius batteries from 2002 - present, at a rate of 1 - 3% per year compared to the Honda battery failure rate of ~20% per year. I will shy away from the Accord Hybrid until I start seeing data that shows that Honda has learned to "mind" its battery as well as Toyota "minds" there batteries.