Arguments for superiority of hybrids

"One additional uncertainty regarding cold start fuel consumption involves the testing of hybrids. Most current hybrid designs include a sizeable battery with which to store energy from braking, provide launch power after extended idles, etc. Current EPA test procedures require that hybrids undergo a four-bag FTP, the fourth bag being a repeat of Bag 2. The state of battery charge is required to be the same at the beginning of the FTP and the end of the four bags. ..."
-- Final Technical Support Document
Fuel Economy Labeling of Motor Vehicle Revisions to Improve Calculation of Fuel Economy Estimates
EPA, December 2006

Some discussion about the impact of battery shift between bags on the city values follows on the same page. The sample calculation, made with a shift larger than likely to occur in real tests, produced only a small change in the resulting value.

 

I tend to trust only the primay data like BobW's empirical graphs, Fuely results, etc., and even then only if I can replicate important data points myself.
"Words, words, words, I'm so sick of words..."

 

I simply tell them actual the mileage I get on the highway, and the mileage I get around town. I let them make up their own minds. When I complain that in snowy weather my mileage decreases to around 43 mpg, they usually go speechless.

Some people told me I had made a bad decision. Then when gas prices went up, I simply smiled.

 

THANK YOU fuzzy. Here's the link to the full doc:
Final Technical Support Document--Fuel Economy Labeling of Motor Vehicle Revisions to Improve Calculation of Fuel Economy Estimates. - Regulatory Economic Analyses | Publications | NCEE | US EPA

 

I bought the Toyota Prius on Friday because I think it is far superior than any other gas saving vehicle out there
I am a certified Nissan sales consultant and I still choose the toyota prius over an all electric Nissan leaf which by the way would have costed me about the same in payment the only real savings would have been gas but the offset would have been a $100 a month lease in a battery for life of owning the leaf based on that I rather just pay a little more for gas and have the freedom to go where I please and how I please without restriction
Do I believe toyota is the superior vehicle on the road today no way bug it is for my pocket book yes I'm one of the few that does not put clean air above my budget I'm not a tree hugger I still own a gas guzzling ford king ranch 2013 expedition and I will drive it whenever I feel like it or need too
The EPA estimates are just that estimates and is the key word in other words their numbers are not exact
I had a 2007 ford focus that on occasion would give me 40 mpg
I had 2011 ford focus that on occasion would give me 40 mpg
I had a 2012 ford focus that averaged 38mpg but on a road trip would give me 43mpg
A lot had to do with my driving habits
It's funny I bought those cars because I didn't want to drop an extra $5g on a prius and I spent more getting here to where I'm at now as a new owner of a prius at the same time though based on what I have read on these forums 1st and 2nd generations have drawbacks so I probably would have gotten rid of a prius after having issues I think as a 3rd gen owner now they have balanced out the car a lot more and at this point at least for me I can see myself owning this thing till it's dead
You guys arguments are nonsense and if you really want to convince the world that a hybrid prius is the way to go start by lowering the price in them or adding a few more options to the base model because cars available like the Nissan Sentra with the same equipment you can purchase for $15,000 and that's a huge savings upfront for a car that will go the distance with a toyota prius for 300k miles
A rational thought for anyone thinking if saving money today not tomorrow because tomorrow is not promised


iPhone ?

 

While Chrysler currently ranks last among large automakers for car fuel economy, FCA CEO Sergio Marchionne yesterday commented on what it would take for Chrysler Group to attain the 2025 fuel economy targets. "Hybrids become a very large component of that fleet. You can't get it without the hybrids. It's impossible."

(Quote from Automotive News)

 

It's the (fuel) economy, stupid!

 

ICE only (Nissan Sentra) is 100+ year old tech that's easy and inexpensive to manufacture.
Hybrid/EV is new tech.. and it's still expensive. Give it some time and it will be inexpensive too.
You don't get cutting edge for cheap...

 

Waste oil is becoming a very hot commodity and restaurants are beginning to put their waste oil under lock and key. Since now they have companies buying the waste oil from them.

We started using B10 at work I think we are down to a b3-b5 blend right now. basically buying b10 every now and gain and mixing with ULSD already in the tank. Seems to be going ok now but we had some growing pains....

 

And it is therefore time to stop calling it 'waste oil'. Used cooking oil was only ever a small niche savings, once big business realized that they could charge MORE for B10, it was inevitable that it would get sucked into the mix. There was never a lot of the stuff, if you compared it to dino-oil, it just seemed like a lot when you needed to get rid of it.

I am 'used cooking oil'-neutral, I use all that I create as bar and chain oil, for my chainsaw, to cut firewood to keep me warm.

 

I agree with the cost but the cost to add a few more standard options is relatively cheap

leather steering wheel to make it feel better to drive and expensive feel
lane departure just like the civic
apps on all models

And with some modification the rear axel should propel energy to the battery while driving at all times




iPad ?

 

I don't think you understand the law of conservation of energy. You can't get something for nothing, which means to generate electricity from a spinning apparatus requires resistance. That's how regenerative braking works.

So to constantly generate electricity would require taking some kinetic energy bought and paid for by your fuel and turning it into electrical energy stored in the battery. Then to use it you have to take it from the battery and apply it to the front wheels. None of those come free, energy is lost in both cases.

It would be like driving around with the E-brake on. What's the sense in that?

 

isnt the wheel itself spinning energy?

remember those things for bicycles wheels you ride a bike and the wheels would light up


iPad ?

 

The spinning wheel possesses kinetic energy, but it's not given or taken for free. To add kinetic energy to a wheel you increase its speed, to take energy from it you decrease its speed. To generate power from these wheels requires adding resistance. Brakes do this by converting it to heat. Can you heat up the brake rotors without applying the brakes and slowing the wheel? Of course not.

There's no such thing as free energy, it has to come from somewhere.

 

The spinning wheel is not generating energy, it just has stored energy.

Those bicycle light generators cause drag, slowing down the bike faster than it normally would. And it isn't just friction in the mechanism, the drag is greater with the light turned on than turned off.

 

what about being able to harness the spinning energy through a wireless grid kind of like charging a car wirelessly like the prius pip but in a smaller scale


iPad ?

 

The same energy conservation laws apply. There is no benefit to harnessing that energy while moving because that energy must be in the wheel and car body for it to move at the desired speed. Then, when you want to slow down the car, the existing mechanical regeneration system already does the harnessing. Adding a wireless system on top of that just adds additional energy loss mechanisms.

[Please note the correction to my previous post, a critical word was missing when you first read it.]

 

I would think most likely a woman with a chip on her shoulder. but who knows? many people want a car/pickup that makes them feel cool or whatever. I just tell them how much I like my hybrid cars. and the 150K hybrid component/batt CARB coverage. these cars sell themselves, if you have a friend or co-worker thinking about buying a car, let them drive yours and show them the mpg.

 

why would you compair them to a 25000 hybrid? if they are looking at fiesta that is a very small car, compair it to the prius c, nice options at 19,200. mine has AC, cruse, elec windows and locks, nice sounding bluetooth, I beleive much nicer than a fiesta. A 25k prius or a plug in base after tax credit, are not similar to the cars you listed. toyota also has 0% 60 month for people with good credit so the payment may be very similar.

 

Wow we paid 28k for our 12 hycam XLE. price now seems to much. both cars are XLE but do they have same options like leather, moon roof ect..?

After writing this I went to the adds to check out the cars and the MSRP is what is listed. the sale price of these cars is less than $4000 apart so the price for the hybrid camry is 28,778 and you get 0% intrest for 5 years with good credit. and adds some leather like upgrade for seats.